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New dev blog: Factional Warfare overhaul

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Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#321 - 2012-05-12 11:04:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
BOCCO BREARLEY wrote:
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Vonlutt wrote:
ITT lots of amarr tears. Give it a few months and Amarr will outnumber minmatar again like it does every Summer until Christmas. Quit crying.


This. Other things Amarrian corp splitted the amarrian FW activity, they doing other Ops and when a plilot want to joining to an opeations, they just say This is PIE. operations, This is Zero Heavy industries OP, this is Imperial Fedaykin op.

They using other comm softwares and channels. The matars use a merged Eve Voice channel, Why to wonder any amarrian corp if the matar militia spank them ? LOL

Amarr FW corps bunch full of noob, almost all just go to LP farming for Navy slicers. 300 members on FW chat and when they need to fight, they just do nothing or just few players go to pvp for help to other members.

So, amarrian pilots, dont cry just go fight.
Check militia member numbers on FW panel and see the truth for numbers.


Really, I mean really?

Zero Heavy Industries have always held open fleets, everyone has their own coms including us but you'll find us on amarr TS3.

The numbers in the Militia Office window (possibly the worst and most under devloped window in the game), do these include active accounts? Do they show people who actually play amarr having 4374 members - thats a laugh.

FW was fun and now it is a sad hollow shell of what it was, it was left too long and now the changes that have been long awaited will kill it. If this was the intention then +1 to CCP - job well done.

Station lock outs will kill it, the other changes, Datacores / LP stuff like that - who cares but the additional jumps required to reship in fights - akkk.


Its just not truth, i played both sides, at amarrian and matarr sides too (last time at amarrian side)
90% of Zero Heavy industres Ops is not alliance op.
8-10 pilots flying in op, when some other small scale alliance fleets flying other locations.

Everyone has own comms, and many times all using other comms not the amarrian TS3.
Use one comms such matars the Eve voice and the matar pilots not have advantages.

FW was fun 2 years ago, when the amarrians not just went to lp farming. FW is not fun anymore, need changes.

Station locks is fine, fight for them and dont just crying. Other thing separated datacores will be balancing the numbers, because when there is no amarrian datacore their prices will be increasing, more pilots will be joining to amarrian milicia and vica-versa.

And yes the Amarrian numbers it's ajoke, because they has ridiculous high pilot numbers, when we talking about Amarrian carebears and ridiculous low numbers when we talking about Amarrian PvPers.
Over 4k numbers and they have max 40-50 pvp pilots who fight.

Just as i told, i fought both sides i know what i'm talk about, the matar side much more organised than amarr side and the amarrian side has much more carebears and they are splitted.
Ahazu Sagam
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#322 - 2012-05-12 12:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahazu Sagam
Quote:
300 members on FW chat and when they need to fight, they just do nothing or just few players go to pvp for help to other members.


Woah, i think i need new glasses; 300 people in milita chat, it looked like a hundred for me. I blame ccp for the new UI scaling Blink. And this would also explain all this whine from minis about blobbing, they have usually 200 people in thier milita chat.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#323 - 2012-05-12 12:38:15 UTC
zero2espect wrote:
well. 0000 has been in FW for nearly 4 years. I have been in or around FW from the very start.

based on everything here, on or just after patch day, 0000 will be leaving Amarr FW.

We are one of the last 4 or 5 active FW corps for Amarr FW and we wish our brothers in arms the best in a now un-winnable situation.

It is a sad day when CCP takes one of the last bastions of small scale fleet warfare and hands it to the blob-dogs.

The decision is not a light one to take, however we will not simply sit back and watch everything we have fought for, over so many years, decapitated, raped and mutilated overnight.

You should take into consideration who is giving you feedback, before you slap yourselves on the back CCP. You have the CEOs or senior members of the last active Amarr FW corps saying the changes are "not the best" and you have 99% of all Minmatar pilots saying how awesome it's going to be and people who have never been in FW saying it is "good except for data cores".

This revamp was an opportunity to really ignite FW and turn it into a home for everybody who "doesn't want all of pvp eve to be like 0.0" and now we're left with what everybody has been saying you would do to FW for the last 12 months, turn FW into "0.0 Light".

Just as an insight, it's Friday night, peak EU TZ and Amarr TS has 13 pilots on it (after a quick check about half are active). The mims probably have 2 or 3 times that number in each of the 2 or 3 fleets closing plexes in preparation for patch day. Amarr FW is dead. And these mechanics make it impossible to recruit anybody willing to go 1:6 against the odds (and have to base ships 3 jumps out in high sec just to get a fight). We've already lost all our systems - there's not going to be any fights over them like you believe in your imagination, the mechanics simply make it impossible.

Here's what's going to happen. Amarr will have to base all it's ships in nearby high-sec (almost every corp has or is already moving all their stuff). Mims will move all their stuff to Kam, Huo and Kourm. They will have reships, capitals, numbers, bonuses and the mechanics of static plexes all working on their side to simply plink away ANYTHING that Amarr FW can muster in terms of a fleet. hell, if Amarr is lucky, the Mims will be stupid and gate camp the entry gates like 0.0, that way when an Amarr fleet gets murdered, there is only 1 Jump to go reship. It's going to be fun for the Amarr guys that are left, the first time some triage carriers get jumped onto anything approaching a "fair" fleet fight - I mean it's not like you will be able to deploy any yourself....

This isn't sour grapes. I expect a lot of "lol tears" replies. Well that's all and good, but we are the Number 6 all time corp in Amarr FW and 5 of the Top 10 all-time killers in Amarr FW are (or were) 0000. We will go toe to toe with anybody, anywhere -but having your head kicked-in by a patch is just plain depressing. Thanks but we'll stand proud and leave on top instead of being ground into stardust by mechanics.


As minmatars are stupid they take all systems without rewards before patch. It is just good that they own all systems before expansion, then they can not farm lp from attack plexes Blink
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#324 - 2012-05-12 13:17:32 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:

As minmatars are stupid they take all systems without rewards before patch. It is just good that they own all systems before expansion, then they can not farm lp from attack plexes Blink

If we ever join FW, remind me that I have to start shooting smurfs ;)

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#325 - 2012-05-12 14:00:48 UTC
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Its just not truth, i played both sides, at amarrian and matarr sides too (last time at amarrian side)
90% of Zero Heavy industres Ops is not alliance op.

0000's fleets have always been public unless it is a specific purpose fleet which as far as I can tell are very rare .. ever heard of Fleet of Lerv? Those were immensely popular open 0000 fleets running for the longest time.
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
.. Other thing separated datacores will be balancing the numbers, because when there is no amarrian datacore their prices will be increasing, more pilots will be joining to amarrian milicia and vica-versa.

Except of course that once prices go high enough on the market, the more expensive cores available from the R&D agents suddenly become competitive on the market so there is no incentive to join a collapsed militia. Keep in mind that you'll have no stations to dock in at all once you enter FW space flying the banner of one of the collapsed .. have fun trying to survive long enough to accomplish anything of value - might be able to run in and a ninja a plex but then the LP gained is only worth 25% so why bother?
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Just as i told, i fought both sides i know what i'm talk about...

Certainly sounds like it .. Big smile

PS: PIE Inc. have had one corp fleet every two to four weeks some time ago (rest were open or not ours) and if anyone *known* asked they were generally allowed to tag along .. fleets themselves were closed but only to control intake and not for exclusivity.
Bad Messenger wrote:
As minmatars are stupid they take all systems without rewards before patch. It is just good that they own all systems before expansion, then they can not farm lp from attack plexes Blink

That is one hell of an observation .. why the hell didn't I see that .. hahahahahahaha, they are silly indeed. I am glad there will no reset now, let them make their money like null carebears .. with nothing but empty space around them and only the occasional noob pirate/roam to keep their blood pumping.
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#326 - 2012-05-12 15:58:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
zero2espect wrote:
Just as an insight, it's Friday night, peak EU TZ and Amarr TS has 13 pilots on it (after a quick check about half are active). The mims probably have 2 or 3 times that number in each of the 2 or 3 fleets closing plexes in preparation for patch day. Amarr FW is dead. And these mechanics make it impossible to recruit anybody willing to go 1:6 against the odds .


Others was on carebear op.

just for everyone he talking about 1:6 odds, but the truth is this : the amarrian and caldari militia have more members than minmatar and gallentean militia. 12k vs 10.5k
The differences is : more minmatar pvping than amarrians. Amarrias carebearing while minmatars killing them.
everyone can check this, when look at the FW information panel.
zero2espect
Space-Brewery-Association
#327 - 2012-05-12 19:53:49 UTC
Tiger, didn't we wardec your main and make the corp run away?

yeah. i think we did.

Tzvi just isn't the same without the sound of you screaming as you run for the gates.

whenever you want to come back, come back. bring some juicy stuff to kill.
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#328 - 2012-05-12 20:11:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
zero2espect wrote:
Tiger, didn't we wardec your main and make the corp run away?

yeah. i think we did.

Tzvi just isn't the same without the sound of you screaming as you run for the gates.

whenever you want to come back, come back. bring some juicy stuff to kill.


Your skill enough to kill my corp or me ? Just talk to us, who is my main you sent wardec? Or just talk about blabla, because it is another lying.
?
I dont think so i scraeming anytime, that's why i have more kills than your whole corp.
I ran at TZVI ? Nice lying, but this character never was in FW that's why i not on your amarr militia killboard, but i killed you many times with my main and with other alts, because you are a noob.
Whenever if i go back you will screaming again when my other alt catch your machariel again.
Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
#329 - 2012-05-12 21:01:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Davion Falcon
So you're all going to give up without even trying? No fight, just fold?

/stockpiles Slicers

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven.
Udonor
Doomheim
#330 - 2012-05-12 21:32:49 UTC
YES! Phase out R&D agents and PVE sources of datacores as fast as possible.

Faction warfare LP stores should be the ONLY source of datacores if you want to revive small fleet combat and ruthless PVP action.

Furthermore I favor making faction PVP kills the only source of datacores. Player ships and maybe pods need to die to earn data cores.


As I see it you still need to reduce the persistent emphasis on PVE. Faction complexes for control of system are still primarily PVE even if a component of player opposition is encouraged. Its really too easy to use time zones etc to out wait most defenders. Thus I think you are still awarding too many points on farmable PVE -- factional or not.

**** LOL - in fact I a can see organized groups of people farming the hell out of factional warfare complexes by using alt corps to play both sides then intentionally letting a complex or system be taken easily and then retaken easily. *****


**** The simplest solution is to drop player tags for ship kills (ship type or class + player rank info) and pod kills (faction military rank only). This could also tie into an improved bounty system where lost ship(s) determine the amount or % of payout -- rather than ally kills you in rookie ship or bare pod to take home whole bounty. ****

Alternatively consider separating LP into two types: PVP earned LP and PVE LP. Or simply award vastly more for killing intelligent player over easily farmed PVE rats.
Hormus
Veria Ltd.
#331 - 2012-05-12 22:11:50 UTC
Datacores is the main source of price difference between T2 BPO and T2 BPC manufactured items.
If datacores get more expensive, ppl that manufacture with invention will have to increase prices - but those with T2 BPO's are not affected.
So, the shamefull gap between T2 BPO owners and the rest manufacturers will get bigger.
Bad move, CCP.
Crimson's Girl
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#332 - 2012-05-12 23:40:37 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Factional Warfare Data Cores need to have the same science skill requirements for redemption just like civilians have. That makes it balanced pertaining to time spent training specific skills as well as not break immersion. Everything else pertaining to Factional Warfare getting access to Data Cores is fine.

This game is advertised as allowing players to do any type of game play style with multiple option's. Seems like you keep trying to force players to play this game a certain way as well as phase out PvE content. If that happens, you can kiss my accounts goodbye. Personally, I think you guys keep messing this game up more and more each year which keeps pushing me closer and closer to canceling all of my accounts.
Shang Ghjuvan
Shang Ghjuvan Corporation
#333 - 2012-05-13 01:56:42 UTC
I was rather irritated when I saw the datacore thing...... I thought the datacore thing was considered one of those things you worked for and achieved, I would rather see it turn into something that takes weekly or monthly activity like pi then to just straight nerf it..... It kind of makes me feel cheated because I spent the money to have an alt account to train them, spend the time on my main to train it, and spent MONTHS trying to get enough standing on all three chars......... Back then you could amost get a monthly plex off it and now the income is laughable..... If you let them build up for a month the time it takes to collect them results in less isk/hr than running level 4s. And then you nerf them???? Really?
Zifrian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#334 - 2012-05-13 02:46:10 UTC
The datacore change makes no sense whatsoever. T2 production costs will increase and the datacores don't even fit into the FW storyline. Furthermore, a cost to retrieve them? Why? All that does is add the cost to the sale. It won't matter to anyone.

Kinda dumbfounded by this change. It's not a lot of isk. I don't see the point plus it's just market transactions, not some free isk faucet. Leave it alone imo.

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SigmaPi
Ambivalent Inc
Coney Island Ski Club
#335 - 2012-05-13 02:49:50 UTC
Hormus wrote:
Datacores is the main source of price difference between T2 BPO and T2 BPC manufactured items.
If datacores get more expensive, ppl that manufacture with invention will have to increase prices - but those with T2 BPO's are not affected.
So, the shamefull gap between T2 BPO owners and the rest manufacturers will get bigger.
Bad move, CCP.


That's a load of bull. The #1 price point is from the negative ME - that translates to a huge amount of waste on bpcs. The datacores are almost negligable in all cases to the price of the final product. I know - I do invention as my primary income.
Morgan Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#336 - 2012-05-13 03:43:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Morgan Dinn
Udonor wrote:

**** LOL - in fact I a can see organized groups of people farming the hell out of factional warfare complexes by using alt corps to play both sides then intentionally letting a complex or system be taken easily and then retaken easily. *****


I think I'll start doing this just **** off CCP cause they are screwing up my r&d skills.
Datacore prices has doubled in a week so there are good isks involved in all of this. :P
Blau Viper
Last of the Brunnen-G
#337 - 2012-05-13 08:10:55 UTC
SigmaPi wrote:
Hormus wrote:
Datacores is the main source of price difference between T2 BPO and T2 BPC manufactured items.
If datacores get more expensive, ppl that manufacture with invention will have to increase prices - but those with T2 BPO's are not affected.
So, the shamefull gap between T2 BPO owners and the rest manufacturers will get bigger.
Bad move, CCP.


That's a load of bull. The #1 price point is from the negative ME - that translates to a huge amount of waste on bpcs. The datacores are almost negligable in all cases to the price of the final product. I know - I do invention as my primary income.


When I said that and suggested that CCP were looking at the wrong ISK facet and suggested rebalancing T2 BPOs against BPCs my post was removed as off topic! This change does nothing to address the real issue of inventions viability, and if I mention the reason for that lack of viability the post will be removed, odd that.
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#338 - 2012-05-13 21:46:33 UTC
I got a tinfoil hat just for you.

But yeah, minimum datacore price just gifts t2 bpo owners more isk per run.

t2 bpos are relics of the past and need removal/nerfing to insignificance.
Caesar Rae
Perkone
Caldari State
#339 - 2012-05-14 00:44:07 UTC
Besides making T2 gear more expensive , and possibly rarer , messing with datacores is a generally bad Idea.

No issues with making them part of the FW rewards system , but they should not be removed from the Research agents entirely.

A balance between the two , such as a higher cost from the current RP for the core , and a similar earned cost from the FW militia.

It is generally a bad idea to break things to where casual players have to decide if it is worth continuing.
Caesar Rae
Perkone
Caldari State
#340 - 2012-05-14 00:51:36 UTC
SigmaPi wrote:
Hormus wrote:
Datacores is the main source of price difference between T2 BPO and T2 BPC manufactured items.
If datacores get more expensive, ppl that manufacture with invention will have to increase prices - but those with T2 BPO's are not affected.
So, the shamefull gap between T2 BPO owners and the rest manufacturers will get bigger.
Bad move, CCP.


That's a load of bull. The #1 price point is from the negative ME - that translates to a huge amount of waste on bpcs. The datacores are almost negligable in all cases to the price of the final product. I know - I do invention as my primary income.




If T2 BPO's operate the same way as T1 BPO's (unfortunately I have never seen one) then the first person is correct.

T2 BPO's do not have the issues with datacore costs or negative ME and PE from invention and thus any cost changes to datacores will make thier products cheaper to market.