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Machariel for lvl 4's, what rigs?

Author
Zophos Shyizana
Omega Legion XIII
#1 - 2011-10-02 14:59:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Zophos Shyizana
Heya,

I could use some advice, I'm not sure what rigs to use on this machariel:

[Low]
Republic fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

[Mid]
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Domination 100mn Afterburner
Domination Shield Booster Amplifier
Pithum A-Type medium Shield booster (I have one laying around, don't hate-.-)

[High]
800mm Repeating Artiliry II
800mm Repeating Artiliry II
800mm Repeating Artiliry II
800mm Repeating Artiliry II
800mm Repeating Artiliry II
800mm Repeating Artiliry II
800mm Repeating Artiliry II
Small Tracktor beam I

[Rigs]
Large Capacitor Controll circuit II ?
+?
+?

Do I put two more CCC's on there? (Not needed at all I think)
Or...? Ambit extentions or something? Or two methatasis Adjusters maby...

All advice is welcome:-).

Edit; While we're at it, what ammo do you guys use? T1/Faction wise, I think faction ammo is pretty expensive? Not sure if it's worth it. (I know it doesn't make sence that I fit a redicilous expensive shield booster but the question still stands)
Jahpahjay
Mechanical Basterds
#2 - 2011-10-02 15:08:52 UTC
For the most part, like you said, you don't really need much else. That being said, more speed and agility is always welcome so I'd go with 3 Poly's if you don't need more cap. And with the extra speed, you'll be taking less dmg, getting into optimal range faster, getting to the gate faster, etc.
Goose99
#3 - 2011-10-02 15:25:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
A t2 dmg rig can actually add a bit of dmg. Otherwise, CCCs or shield resist rigs to fill the EM/heat hole.P
Zophos Shyizana
Omega Legion XIII
#4 - 2011-10-02 16:30:32 UTC
Hmm, with a dmg rig I can only fit 2 rigs at most. I guess I'll go with the tracking rigs then.
Orlacc
#5 - 2011-10-02 17:15:33 UTC
Fill that EM hole at least...

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Zophos Shyizana
Omega Legion XIII
#6 - 2011-10-02 17:17:21 UTC
Hmm, will be from 57.9 to 65.1 % em resistance with a T1 rig, not that fantastic.
Orlacc
#7 - 2011-10-02 17:33:50 UTC
Suit yourself. One thing you DON"T need is CCC.

I use these:

Large Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


I know about stacking but I like to squeeze out every bit of DPS and it does. I do about 1350 DPS to Angels with Ogre IIs.

But then I pulse an XL booster.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

AureoLion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-10-02 22:16:11 UTC
T2 burst aerator
Anti-EM screening / Capacitor Safeguard
All you need is shooooting power.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-10-02 22:26:57 UTC
I use SMC's vs CCC's - I really don't care how quickly the cap recharges. If I need to use my tank, I turn it on until the bulk of incoming DPS is dead, then turn it off and occasionally pulse it. SMC's give me longer use time than the CCC's when it's needed.
AureoLion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-10-02 23:22:37 UTC
Mocam wrote:
I use SMC's vs CCC's - I really don't care how quickly the cap recharges. If I need to use my tank, I turn it on until the bulk of incoming DPS is dead, then turn it off and occasionally pulse it. SMC's give me longer use time than the CCC's when it's needed.

Caution, that thing isn't always true. (also, you may actually need the recharging cap sometimes)
Mh. Math will explain it.
T = Time that capacitor lasts
C = Total Capacitor
Cr = Capacitor Recharge (/sec)
Cu = Capacitor Use (/sec)
Δc = Cu-Cr

T = C/Δc
SMCs highen C, and to an extent Cr. CCCs highen Cr by an higher factor.
A set of SMCs will highen C by 52%, and Cr by 52%.
A set of CCCs will highen Cr by 64%.
to get a better time with CCCs than with SMCs, we have to decrease Δc by more than 66%,(1/1.52) counting only the 12% advantage CCCs have on SMCs. This means that (Cu-Cr*1.52) < (Cu-Cr*1.66)*1.52 . Basically, when stability is near.
in situations when Cr>cu*0.52, before rigs, CCCs are better, even for cap longevity.

TL;DR: If Cap used is > 2x Cap Recharge, SMCs. If not, CCCs.
Psychophantic
#11 - 2011-10-03 04:59:37 UTC
I use a T2 Large Ambit and 2x SMC's.

I just use T2 invulns with a Gist XL booster and amp so I'm just pulsing it as needed. I think CCC's are better if you're going for a permarun tank with the PITH medium booster.

Though with the CalNavy Invulns I doubt you'd need cap rigs at all, go with what Orlacc said above.
Zophos Shyizana
Omega Legion XIII
#12 - 2011-10-03 12:39:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Zophos Shyizana
I've installed a T2 burst aerator + the anti-em rig. Works fine so far, never ran out of cap yet. (I've put a Corpus X-type heavy nos on there as extra cap though, just to be sure.)
Might just swap that for a tractor beam later.

I'm still wondering if Faction ammo is cost effective however...
Orlacc
#13 - 2011-10-03 17:04:16 UTC
For missions, faction is cost effective but makes for a smaller margin. I like it because it is fun to one-shot cruisers. But in well-skilled Mach, you still have the advantage either way.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#14 - 2011-10-03 18:27:10 UTC
I listened to the EFT warriors when I started Mach'in it.

Use CCC's. Heres why;

How long you can sit down and do missions is the critical factor. If you cannot decrease your mission time enough to be able to do one more mission, its futile. I noticed rigs gave me a few more dps, I forget the exact number, but i think it would go from 1008 to 1038.

I tried it with rigs besides CCC"s because people on the forums said it would decrease my mission times. It did not decrease mission times by any significant amount. And having the 3 CCC's allows me to only use 2 hardeners (except sansha) and a gist b xl. The f-90 and OTL DO decrease mission time. Foe example lets ask this guy...

Quote:
Suit yourself. One thing you DON"T need is CCC.

I use these:

Large Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


I know about stacking but I like to squeeze out every bit of DPS and it does. I do about 1350 DPS to Angels with Ogre IIs.

But then I pulse an XL booster.


What is your mission completion time with and without the CCC's?

Quote:
I do about 1350 DPS to Angels with Ogre IIs, after 30-60 seconds of traversal time.


Fixed.



internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Orlacc
#15 - 2011-10-03 20:15:34 UTC
More DPS =faster missions quite simply. If you have cap issues in a Mach it's not my fault.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Lugalzagezi666
#16 - 2011-10-03 20:29:25 UTC
I used mach with wide variety of rigs from cccs, cdfes and cap safeguards to t2 ambits and burst aerator - and neither of them was able to reduce mission time by noticeable amount.

I also decided not to use heavy drones after first mission with my mach. Lol

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#17 - 2011-10-03 22:37:07 UTC
Orlacc wrote:
More DPS =faster missions quite simply. If you have cap issues in a Mach it's not my fault.


Really? If you don't have enough alpha to reduce the number of volleys it takes to kill the NPC's in that mission, it does not even reduce mission time at all. Not even a smidgen.

If you go for ROF DPS increase, you have to reduce the amount of time in one sitting to complete one more mission to see any financial benefit (from missioning anyway).

Quote:
I used mach with wide variety of rigs from cccs, cdfes and cap safeguards to t2 ambits and burst aerator - and neither of them was able to reduce mission time by noticeable amount.


Quote:
More DPS =faster missions quite simply. If you have cap issues in a Mach it's not my fault.


Toombs wrote:
Dope it out.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Quinc4623
Space Explorers Federation
#18 - 2011-10-03 23:38:54 UTC
With that Medium shield booster you have an excellent ratio of cap used and shield points provided. However the actual shield points provided is low, it's just it will barely nibble your cap.

Without pulling up EFT, I'm pretty sure that fit is cap stable even without more cap rigs.

The then the goal is the make use of the shield points you are getting out of it.

This means increasing resistance, even if just a little. Tech II screen rigs are worthwhile on this ship.

Polycarbon rigs would increase your defense slightly, but the bigger difference is that you'd get where you're going faster, and thus finish missions faster.

With seven Tech II guns in your highs and seven weapons upgrades in your lows I wouldn't worry about your ability to kill stuff. I might even consider dropping a low slot for a Damage Control II or Nanofiber. Damage Control improves tank slightly, but also helps a lot if your shields fail. Nanofibers structure: See above about Polycarbon. Weapons rigs only make sense if you only have a few weapons upgrades in your lows.

Actually I would seriously consider another shield booster. I use an extra-large booster with Capacitor rigs to great effect. Though there are problems when I forget to turn it off. It could also work to have two shield boosters, however you would likely lose the shield booster amplifier. The first booster would be less powerful, but at least you could use all your capacitor for tank in a pinch.
Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-10-04 07:45:55 UTC
You could always disable auto-repeat on the booster, but that could get annoying, too.

From my experience with the Machariel so far, it has an already great capacitor. I actually thought weeks about a fitting before giving a gist xl booster a chance. Pulsing plays rather different to perma-running a medium booster, but it's not that hard and makes the whole missioning a bit more interesting. There's still loads of cap left (perfectly cap stable without the sb running), but I've still got the CCCs rigged. I didn't test it yet, but I think about grabbing one EM rig and a projectile damage rig (considering I'm using one DMC2 and only 3 gyros). The third slot? Not sure... more capacitor might sound interesting for those missions requiring some extra tank, but so do more EM or TH resist or even just a bit more shields (allowing you to pulse even less often and therefore saving cap). I most likely wouldn't consider a damage rig with 4 faction gyros though.

Looking for more thoughts? Follow me on Twitter.

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#20 - 2011-10-04 15:40:15 UTC
Quote:
This means increasing resistance, even if just a little. Tech II screen rigs are worthwhile on this ship.


How so? Can you use only 2 shield slots then? Just one booster and one hardener? Because with 3 slots you are covered without any rigs.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it