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What is understeer/oversteer?
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Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#1 - 2012-05-12 08:44:45 UTC
I watch a lot of Top Gear on Netflix, and play a little Forza 4, and I hear the terms used a LOT on TG and have never understood them, as they tend to throw them around and never explain them lol

I have noticed older, rear wheel drive cars, especially ones that have a lot of horsepower (for then) have a tendancy upon exitting a turn to want to continue in the direction of the turn even after you try to make them go forward and end up fighting for a bit to achieve that, the end result looking a lot like you used to see on old '70s cop shows like Starkey and Hutch when they flew around a corner and the car would go sideways afterwards. Id assume thats OVERsteer?
Or is that just wrong?

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Beledia Ilphukiir
Proffessional Experts Group
#2 - 2012-05-12 10:20:27 UTC
Understeering is when you want to turn, but the car seems to just push forward instead of going where the wheels are turned and oversteering is the car turning more then it should, resulting in the rear easily sliding.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#3 - 2012-05-12 10:39:55 UTC
Oversteer is when the car steers/turns greater than the turning of the steering wheel.
Understeer is the opposite.

You correct oversteer by easing off the gas and countering
You correct understeer by stabbing the front brakes whilst turning to induce a front wheel slip, which kicks out the back tyres, which then allows you to put the power back on, once the car is aligns with the apex - AKA 'left-foot braking'. This is because the front of the car is heavier than the rear of the car. The engine and transmission is all in the front, plus the driver, so when you brake, there is a transference of kinetic energy, making the rear end lighter and more prone to slip.

FF cars and sometimes 4WD cars understeer due to the lack of having 2 wheels responsible for steering and two wheels for power.

The best handling cars as a result tend to be FR and MR cars. Most muscle cars and Ferrari's are one of these two disciplines.

When you see Hutch taking a wild corner, what's happening is Hutch has the front wheels 100% dedicated to steering the car, and the rear wheel have 100% of the power. As the vehicle has near perfect weight balance combined with the above, Hutch is having a ball by flicking the steering wheel right or left and planting his right foot. As he has no traction control, 100% of the power is being transferred to the wheels no matter whether the wheels can take it or not, allowing for fun.

What you're describing is drifting, but you could call it 'exploited oversteer'.

I've lost two FF cars due to understeer and nearly lost a 4WD car because of the same. I almost crashed a FR car when I laid down the power a little too early whilst joining a main road - I corrected it, but it would have been headline news; multiple pile-up territory, if I hadn't.

Most dangerous maneuver in a car: going between two lorries on a main road whilst doing siro 140mph+ @ 3am on the way to the airport. Pimp.

I still remember the screams of my passengers.

Nearly lost my license for doing 100+ in a 50 variable zone, but first offense and I had good legal, so walked away with a two-week ban and a fine. Didn't even get points lol.

/goes to find pictures of cars

AK

This space for rent.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-05-12 11:16:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
AlleyKat wrote:
Oversteer is when the car steers/turns greater than the turning of the steering wheel.
Understeer is the opposite.

You correct oversteer by easing off the gas and countering
You correct understeer by stabbing the front brakes whilst turning to induce a front wheel slip, which kicks out the back tyres, which then allows you to put the power back on, once the car is aligns with the apex - AKA 'left-foot braking'. This is because the front of the car is heavier than the rear of the car. The engine and transmission is all in the front, plus the driver, so when you brake, there is a transference of kinetic energy, making the rear end lighter and more prone to slip.

FF cars and sometimes 4WD cars understeer due to the lack of having 2 wheels responsible for steering and two wheels for power.

The best handling cars as a result tend to be FR and MR cars. Most muscle cars and Ferrari's are one of these two disciplines.



this really.

in addition: to reduce (not nullify) understeer on FF cars you need either sway bars to keep the wheels aligned and reduce body roll, a strut bar to help out the sway bar by reducing suspension tower flex, a LSD (limited slip differential) so that the engine can always send the most torque to the wheel that has more adherence (regular "open" diffs will do the exact opposite) and thus keep control under more fringe situations, one of many kinds of traction control systems that emulates the principles of the LSD's by using the ABS system, a combination of either, or all of them.

It is to note however, that neither of these systems will help your ass if you think you're a Shumacker or a Senna and you try to use your Civic as a F1 racing car, and they will help even less if you disregard the most basic and important safety feature of your car: good tires.


and to top a bit more, if you want to know the kings of oversteer, all you have to search is the first generations of the Porsche 911, which, due to its configuration (rear-engine, rear traction, thus having most of the weight on the rear axle), it acted like a flying hammer on the road, always trying to put the rear on the front. It is to note that Porsche did everything that was possible to keep this from happening, including using lead front bumpers to keep the weight ratios on the 50/50 area, but only the last 911 generations managed to keep the oversteer tendency of a RR configuration under control.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#5 - 2012-05-12 15:38:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
AlleyKat wrote:
Oversteer is when the car steers/turns greater than the turning of the steering wheel.
Understeer is the opposite.

You correct oversteer by easing off the gas and countering
You correct understeer by stabbing the front brakes whilst turning to induce a front wheel slip, which kicks out the back tyres, which then allows you to put the power back on, once the car is aligns with the apex - AKA 'left-foot braking'. This is because the front of the car is heavier than the rear of the car. The engine and transmission is all in the front, plus the driver, so when you brake, there is a transference of kinetic energy, making the rear end lighter and more prone to slip.

FF cars and sometimes 4WD cars understeer due to the lack of having 2 wheels responsible for steering and two wheels for power.

The best handling cars as a result tend to be FR and MR cars. Most muscle cars and Ferrari's are one of these two disciplines.

When you see Hutch taking a wild corner, what's happening is Hutch has the front wheels 100% dedicated to steering the car, and the rear wheel have 100% of the power. As the vehicle has near perfect weight balance combined with the above, Hutch is having a ball by flicking the steering wheel right or left and planting his right foot. As he has no traction control, 100% of the power is being transferred to the wheels no matter whether the wheels can take it or not, allowing for fun.

What you're describing is drifting, but you could call it 'exploited oversteer'.

I've lost two FF cars due to understeer and nearly lost a 4WD car because of the same. I almost crashed a FR car when I laid down the power a little too early whilst joining a main road - I corrected it, but it would have been headline news; multiple pile-up territory, if I hadn't.

Most dangerous maneuver in a car: going between two lorries on a main road whilst doing siro 140mph+ @ 3am on the way to the airport. Pimp.

I still remember the screams of my passengers.

Nearly lost my license for doing 100+ in a 50 variable zone, but first offense and I had good legal, so walked away with a two-week ban and a fine. Didn't even get points lol.

/goes to find pictures of cars

AK


hey man thanks A LOT
I remember a talk on Top Gear involving animals and drivetrains but it was more funny that educational lol

hm... ill see if i cant find it

http://youtu.be/VM8ArZ3o8qE

about 7:40, 7:50 in it starts lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Something Random
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-05-12 21:31:21 UTC
Understeer is ALWAYS bad.

Oversteer is NOT ALWAYS bad.

"caught on fire a little bit, just a little."

"Delinquents, check, weirdos, check, hippies, check, pillheads, check, freaks, check, potheads, check .....gangs all here!"

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captain kikaz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-05-12 22:36:10 UTC
Quote:
]Most dangerous maneuver in a car: going between two lorries on a main road whilst doing siro 140mph+ @ 3am on the way to the airport. Pimp.


Quote:
Nearly lost my license for doing 100+ in a 50 variable zone, but first offense and I had good legal, so walked away with a two-week ban and a fine. Didn't even get points lol.



you sir are a muppet.
Reiisha
#8 - 2012-05-12 22:46:27 UTC
It's obviously a left-wing political plot.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#9 - 2012-05-13 00:29:15 UTC  |  Edited by: AlleyKat
captain kikaz wrote:


you sir are a muppet.



If life doesn't flash before your eyes, you haven't lived.

This space for rent.
Ranzabar
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-05-13 05:42:01 UTC
For instance, cars with light frontends like Toyota MR2's or old Bugs will understeer, since the wheels don't have much pushing them into the ground.

Abide
Shalia Ripper
#11 - 2012-05-13 08:15:48 UTC
Good tires, not great tires.

Sig blah blah blah blah
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-05-13 15:56:58 UTC
Shalia Ripper wrote:
Good tires, not great tires.

I have to admit that this is also true.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Evelyn Meiyi
Corvidae Trading and Holding
#13 - 2012-05-13 21:02:28 UTC
Grimpak wrote:

It is to note however, that neither of these systems will help your ass if you think you're a Shumacker or a Senna and you try to use your Civic as a F1 racing car, and they will help even less if you disregard the most basic and important safety feature of your car: good tires.


I'll supplement this with 'good, well-maintained tires'. To be honest, the brand of tires you buy is less important than regular tire maintenance. Rotate the tires as directed by the manual, keep them properly inflated (under- and over-inflated tires have a negative effect on gas consumption) and replace them (all of them at the same time, if possible) when they start to show obvious signs of wear.
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-05-14 05:26:15 UTC
I'm surprised nobody linked this yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoICf55jED8
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#15 - 2012-05-14 05:43:59 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:


I've lost two FF cars due to understeer and nearly lost a 4WD car because of the same.
I still remember the screams of my passengers.


AK



Fixed. Big smile

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Sup B1tches
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-05-14 11:50:37 UTC
un·der·steer
   [n. uhn-der-steer; v. uhn-der-steer] Show IPA
noun
1.
a handling characteristic of an automotive vehicle that causes it to turn less sharply than the driver intends because the front wheels slide to the outside of the turn before the rear wheels lose traction.

o·ver·steer
   [n. oh-ver-steer; v. oh-ver-steer] Show IPA
noun
1.
handling of an automotive vehicle that causes turns that are sharper than the driver intends because the rear wheels slide to the outside of the turn before the front wheels lose traction.

understeer - happens when turning while braking hard

oversteer - happens when turning and accellerating hard
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#17 - 2012-05-14 11:56:16 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
AlleyKat wrote:


I've lost two FF cars due to understeer and nearly lost a 4WD car because of the same.
I still remember the screams of my passengers.


AK



Fixed. Big smile


lol.

Actually, wasn't going that fast when I lost the cars, I think in both instances I was going sub 50 speeds, but was avoiding other road users and the cars just drifted off-line for a micro-second and kerblammo.

I also hit a teen on a bike once who tried to 'beat the lights' and crosscut traffic at night with no lights or illuminous outfits, mo fo ruined my number plate and broke a headlight.

Don't worry, he walked away as his bike took the impact.

The screaming passengers is not all - I had a girl ask me to pull over whilst she threw up her lunch, after I took her lil' car for a test drive cross-country to see where the limits of grip were. That car never ran the same again.

/sighs

This space for rent.
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#18 - 2012-05-14 16:41:32 UTC
I'm surprised no one said loose or tight.

So close...