Out of Pod Experience

I did, that all the app's are, browsers to the URI's, you went on and on about google and hosting and not being expensive, then to go buy books.. I simply stated those are not free, you even said it yourself, they are not free. But you all want free apps. Somebody has to pay somewhere but you all expect the developer to absorb the costs. You all don't want adverts, you all cry that its infected if that is the case, but you all don't click donate either. Now CCP want's us to pay a fee, for pretty much supporting the user again, again absorbing the costs by the developer. Because you are all tight gits. You mostly won't donate, and those that do, give pittance. Devices cost 300+ each, books cost, 30 euros approx each. Uploading to Google play costs 25 approximately. and that is just to open an account to publish with. Then they take a cut of any revenue. Then you will all demand to get the same app on iOS, then Windows Phone (not a chance) Do you pay for that? NO. Then you all said to hire artists, well yeah duh, more money up the swanney. What do we get in return? People moaning its a paid for app. We the developer gets screwed every which way. If its not the user, its CCP. If its not CCP, its Google, if its not Google, its the hardware makers, if its not them, its the book publishers, on and on and on. And what do you give? NOTHING. But you sure WANT a lot for NOTHING. Then you all go on and criticise us for trying to avoid being creamed by CCP by avoiding their IP. Again, we are then treated like theives. Well uhh. Fine, we can just stop developing apps then. Oh but you would all moan and gurn then too!. If we ask for 50 eurocents or 1 euro for an app, you all demand apps worth 1000 dollars and instant support 24/7 with upgrades for life, and every bug fixed immediately AND 1000 billion features added, then you complain its bloatware.

Yeah thats nice but doesn't work for the scale we are talking about. This is just priced to cover costs of developing the app. Not for big revenue and profits. Either way, we the app developer are getting SCREWED, not only is the customer screwing us by not wanting to pay even a token amount of 50 cents to 1 euro, CCP want to screw us too. That is why I am basically cutting CCP assets out of the app completely and that means no CCP artwork. Period.

Look at the relity of Eve apps, tiny, miniscule. Where does CCP think we are making big money? The only people making big money are BattleClinic and so on, the big guys with money are making money, not me or other small app developers. But we are all getting lumped into the barrel to be screwed over. Well, NOT ME. I am using every way to avoid it where possible and yes it is possible.

if I wanted to be making big money, it won't be on apps for Eve.

It has been in the works for years, along with NEX and MT. They are all still coming. Licensing was discussed at fanfest I belive there is slides on it.

Basically steer clear of bundling and redistributing their media and you will be able to avoid their license. They can sing and dance all they want but there is nothing they can do about it, and if they do, major bad publicity especially if they start throwing take down notices to app stores. That will only back fire majorly because it would be possible to counter file against CCP for harassment from frivolous legal notices and interference of my account with the app store. I have had counsel on this (free for me :) ) and basically steer clear of anything they have copyright on. Sure you can browse, invoke and consume, but don't ever bundle and redistribute with the app. Will I fight, hell yeah and take every other eve app on the app store down with me in the process :)

Would it be possible to argue fair use if it's not for profit , but to cover just costs. Well, that is one possible way but not one way I want to fight it, I simply want to cut out CCP's assets from the start. That way they have no claim to anything to license and thus, cannot demand a license fee. Counsel said so :) What it would also result in is basically bullying on CCP's part and also extortion, interference and harassment if they tried :) If they want that egg on their face, they can have it :) Fried :) Any usage of any auth keys is between CCP and the USER, not the app / browser tool, no keys will be distributed with the app.

Yes I know, that is why it would be nice if we all got our act together and made a public library of alternative art that anybody can use for building Eve sites/apps etc.

This really is our only solution to avoiding their license, avoid their artwork/media and we avoid the license. I raised this last time it was attempted to license developers, I am raising it again and again and again because it is the only real way to fight it. Roll our own. Depriving CCP the opportunity to have a reason to require a license. Remove that reason, and we win. We all got screwed because of sites like Battleclinic with high volume traffic and commerce, and now the little people get walked on. I Think its time to bite back. AlterEve fan/site/app/developer assets package :)

Your going to have to do the art your self .

or use creative commons appropriately licensed works ( requires your time in searching and browsing through archives)

or use sites like deposit photo (read the licenses carefully) and pay for the art that you like . (requires funds you do not want to spend)

or use skills and communication to work with real people to make the art for you . resources available ?
family and friends who may have artist or semi artist . Do not forget their kids you might get a nice surprise . do not forget to mention the hook of you will publish their name in the app credits !! they will be famous !! (ok maybe not, but it still may appeal to them as a portfolio builder / vanity or coolness factor)

or down scale your graphical aspirations and iconify the graphics bare minimal black and white (requires you spend the time in a paint program making icons not fun but doable and will get you working results at the expense of your time but with the bonus of no costs.

but welcome to one of the growing problems of media art is expensive .


And before i forget put your requirements up on http://www.freelancer.com/ you just might get some reasonable bids. bonus is that the work produced for your there will most likely be yours to do with what ever you want.

Sure paying (even with ISK or something in game) is possible, or CC stuff, that is what I am trying to find as I am sure other people have encountered this issue but it looks like most people just rip off CCP's artwork for their apps and sites.

It is nice to say "go search CC site" etc, but the point of this thread was to try and get people thinking about this entire issue and maybe even get the ball rolling on an "alternative Eve media package" that everybody can use., I am searching sites, I don't mind giving something back for the artwork to people who do it, but certinally cannot afford to hire dedicated artists lol.

If we could have a central package or place for stuff like this it would benefit every app/site builder and remove CCP's artwork from it completely and still be related and recognisable, BUT it seems nobody gives a rats and is happy to keep using CCP's artwork and hope to get away with it. This I don't want to do. It should be a community effort as it benefits the community. Using CCP's artwork only puts the community at risk now that they are going back to the licensing issue in a desperate re-landgrab to make money to pay off their big debts as CCP are in financial trouble, which is fine, they can do that, it's their stuff but it screws over the small app/site builder who is trying to run something not at a loss but also not at a profit. As I said earlier, donations don't work, adverts don't pay and only annoy people. This is what the problem with CCP's licensing is, it assumes people that are trying to cover costs, are in it for profit, they lumped us all in with the BattleClinic profiteering sites, which we are NOT. And now we have to pay for that narrowminded thinking on their part. Sure they have get out clauses for donations and adware and stuff but those mechanisms DO NOT WORK, very few donate and adverts only annoy.

The point of my app isn't to make a profit it is just to cover costs in making and supporting it. Everybody here seems to think its for profit then jumps on that bus lol. Then they say but your charging for the app... well omg 50 euro cents is a deal breaker aint it? They are exactly the kind of people who DON'T click the donate button or adverts and expect everything for free, basically greedy ungrateful people.

If you want free apps, go get me 3 or 4 devices, go get me a computer, go get me books, go get me artists, get me free app loading to app stores, and I will give you all the free apps you want. Somebody has to pay, somewhere down the line, I can't afford to pay all that and not get some way to cover it.

The way CCP is going now, this WILL become an issue, people just don't want to deal with it, well here I am trying to get a movement going to get us out of this risk.

Do you want me to plaster adverts and donations all over my app? I am sure you don't, and I am sure it will be a whine fest about the app if I did, and you would just all stop using it for that every reason. Will you click donate? cannot depend on that, adverts don't cover costs and become a risk and support nightmare in the code and again turns into a whinefest about the app.

CCP's licensing does not account for this exact scenario. They need to differentiate between those trying to cover costs by a small fee on the app (perhaps CCP can put a get out clause on a charge cap for the apps before they are wanting some of the cut?) we get screwed by their licensing because they automatically think (as people on here seem to also) we are like Battleclinic and making billions on it.

Is nobody interested in making a license free artwork package for Eve 3rd party builders? So much for the community.

Only because people started to assume and insinuate that we are making huge profits and stealing CCP's assets when we are trying to do something helpful to the community.