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Faction war lock out compromise
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#1 - 2012-05-11 17:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
I propose that if a system sovereignty is contested then the npc stations no longer pick a side by locking the enemy out.
So we would continue to have the rule you can't dock in an enemy system that is not contested.

However, once a system is contested, the docking and station services would be open to both sides.

So by completing a single plex the offensive side would unlock their ships in that system and have docking rights and services in that system. This will allow them to continue an ongoing fight for that system.

The defending side would be urged to quickly react and decontest the system so the offensive side would be locked out again.

Whether you could have access to mission agents I don't really care either way. I would prefer offensive side should have access to all the things that directly help them continue the fight in that system. So I think they should have access to repairs and station services.

If this was the rule I would move allot of my stuff back to the warzone.

Edit: This would also allow the offensive side to try to strategize and plant ships in a single system and try to gain the upper hand. The defending side might start to recognize the neutral alts transport ships and guess where the enemy is planning their next attack. It would be funny if the defending side saw it comming and was able to completely prevent any plexes being captured so the enemy never got access to the ships they moved. Yes that would be hard to prevent given a minor plex only takes 10 minutes but it would be funny.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#2 - 2012-05-11 18:02:55 UTC
I could get behind this.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#3 - 2012-05-11 18:08:38 UTC
Right now, I'm planning on moving out of the fw warzone, no way I'm going to defensive plex for no rewards just for the honour of being able to dock. (This is the reason, along with bubbles, that I don't live in nullsec).

This makes it slightly better for offensive ops, but I still would move my main base of operations outside of fw.

I still think the better solution will be to scrap the whole station docking denial thing.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#4 - 2012-05-11 18:09:42 UTC
From Madbuster


Quote:
Another idea:

Wouldnt it be more useful to upgrade systems like this:

Level 1: 25% Reduction in Marketorders, Contracts, Jumpclones, Repaircosts etc.
Level 2: Enemy cant use Agents in Station
Level 3: Enemy cant use Services in Station
Level 4: Enemy cant dock in Stations
Level 5: Sov holder can Use Cynojammers on their POS

So that means people have a chance to get in their ships by plexing a system down a bit and arent fully locked out when sov changes. I think this will encourage pvp more then people having locked out permanently and they wont bother coming to that system.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#5 - 2012-05-11 18:36:25 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Right now, I'm planning on moving out of the fw warzone, no way I'm going to defensive plex for no rewards just for the honour of being able to dock. (This is the reason, along with bubbles, that I don't live in nullsec).

This makes it slightly better for offensive ops, but I still would move my main base of operations outside of fw.

I still think the better solution will be to scrap the whole station docking denial thing.



I agree with you here 100%.

"I still would move my main base of operations outside of fw" as well. And I think dropping the whole station denial thing is better. This is a compromise.

But if I knew I could unlock my ships by completing a 10 minute plex I would still keep some ships in the war zone. Now I am not. Not at all, unless I intend to leave militia.


Also I do think there should be some big consequence to having a system go "contested." Because people need to have some sense of urgency to stop people from plexing. I have sat in plexes for hours with lots of wartargets roaming around and they never have to bother coming in to chase me out. I often think these faction war plexes are safer than being at a safe spot.

Given that the losing side's lp is going to be pretty much worthless even compared to the standard lp stores gaining lp for plexing is just not going to encourage me to go plexing.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Dare Knight
Bandwagoners
#6 - 2012-05-12 04:03:35 UTC
Just taking a quick sidestep for a moment. Not trying to derail the thread.

I noticed that you are very passionate about FW, and I applaud you for that. I certainly can't wait to see if the new changes bring more people into FW, and I hope they don't stop iterating on the system after it's working. I love where your head is at and I look forward to good things from you, for sure.

There are some people on the forums where you see their name and go, "Crap... another thread". Then there's some people where you can't help but want to read their threads because they are well thought out, discuss very key specific points, and present supporting facts, figures, data, or experiences in a manner that people can look at and also logically respond to with facts, figures, data, or personal experiences. It creates great synergy and is one of the purposes of open public forums. I can safely say that you've found your way onto that list for me.

I couldn't help but notice that you also post in the CSM forums. I think that's fantastic. I didn't see a thread about this or your last thread here in W&T in the CSM forums. I think those are great points to bring up as proposals and, seeing as how people here already support your idea and/or are presenting valid arguments (between both threads), it would do well for the CSM to see it.

That's not a criticism, complaint, or "wtf rong forum", as again, I definitely love where you're head is at. I just think it would be stellar for this and your other thread to be written up as proposals in the CSM forum as well as here.

Admittedly I don't check those boards very often, but I was excited to see you posting there and I look forward to the topics being posted in there as well.

Keep up the good work!

_It's very simple, really. If you see Tengus on scan, they are ratting. If you see a shitload of Tengus, the Russians are blobbing. If you see Proteuses on scan, they will be on top of you in about a second. If you see a shitload of Proteuses, the big boys are having a goodfight. _
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#7 - 2012-05-12 10:27:56 UTC
Dare Knight wrote:
Just taking a quick sidestep for a moment. Not trying to derail the thread.

I noticed that you are very passionate about FW, and I applaud you for that. I certainly can't wait to see if the new changes bring more people into FW, and I hope they don't stop iterating on the system after it's working. I love where your head is at and I look forward to good things from you, for sure.

There are some people on the forums where you see their name and go, "Crap... another thread". Then there's some people where you can't help but want to read their threads because they are well thought out, discuss very key specific points, and present supporting facts, figures, data, or experiences in a manner that people can look at and also logically respond to with facts, figures, data, or personal experiences. It creates great synergy and is one of the purposes of open public forums. I can safely say that you've found your way onto that list for me.

I couldn't help but notice that you also post in the CSM forums. I think that's fantastic. I didn't see a thread about this or your last thread here in W&T in the CSM forums. I think those are great points to bring up as proposals and, seeing as how people here already support your idea and/or are presenting valid arguments (between both threads), it would do well for the CSM to see it.

That's not a criticism, complaint, or "wtf rong forum", as again, I definitely love where you're head is at. I just think it would be stellar for this and your other thread to be written up as proposals in the CSM forum as well as here.

Admittedly I don't check those boards very often, but I was excited to see you posting there and I look forward to the topics being posted in there as well.

Keep up the good work!



read the devblog ... they have no idea about direction ... if usee last few sentences of the blog ... they are just doing practical experiments ;(
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#8 - 2012-05-12 10:48:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
chatgris wrote:
Right now, I'm planning on moving out of the fw warzone, no way I'm going to defensive plex for no rewards just for the honour of being able to dock. (This is the reason, along with bubbles, that I don't live in nullsec).

This makes it slightly better for offensive ops, but I still would move my main base of operations outside of fw.

I still think the better solution will be to scrap the whole station docking denial thing.


Honestly, bubbles are not that big of a deal in null sec.. Typically see anchored ones close to entry points or high traffic choke points. Aside from that just make sure you primary dictors just like you would kill ceptors to get them off the field in low sec.

To the OP..

Might as well forget any major changes, as it's far too close to release date for CCP to go back to the drawing board. We are getting what is on SiSi now, like it or not.
Susan Black
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2012-05-12 16:08:10 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Right now, I'm planning on moving out of the fw warzone, no way I'm going to defensive plex for no rewards just for the honour of being able to dock. (This is the reason, along with bubbles, that I don't live in nullsec).



I don't live in null-sec either because I hate defensive plexing for no rewards out there.


www.gamerchick.net @gamerchick42
Draco Rosso
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-05-12 17:44:41 UTC
Careful what you wish for. I remember everyone clamoring for station docking restrictions in the last few years. Now your going to get station lock out restrictions. Deal with it! Bring on the patch I been waiting years for this.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#11 - 2012-05-13 02:14:53 UTC
Dare knight thank you for the compliments.

As far as the csm I do agree that they are a good way to communicate thoughts to ccp.

Hans is almost certainly aware of this thread and is following them well already. He is the guy on the csm who is most in tune with what the small scale low sec pvper is after. Others on the csm are fairly upfront that they aren't that involved in faction war. Although Selene and Elise stand out as people who have at least shown they are following the threads a bit. I think if I just took an idea to them they would properly ask me to get feed back from other players first.

The reason I am posting here before I take it to csm forums is because this is where the most faction war players hang out. I think vetting ideas here can be helpful. That way people who are familar with the relevant mechanics can give their views first. Once people in that are familiar with the mechanics have looked at the idea and have given the reasons why they like or dislike an idea then I might take it specifically to a csm. ( Assuming Hans doesn't indicate that he is already aware of it and asking ccp to consider something like this.)

Not many players understand faction war plexing mechanics. So for me its not so much the numbers of votes yay or nay but the reasons people give for supporting or rejecting an idea which will determine if I will keep promoting it.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#12 - 2012-05-13 03:59:11 UTC
Waaaaa waa waahh waaaaaa Docking wahhhh LEAVING FW waaaaaaaaaa wahhhhh

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#13 - 2012-05-14 08:47:26 UTC
Draco Rosso wrote:
Careful what you wish for. I remember everyone clamoring for station docking restrictions in the last few years. Now your going to get station lock out restrictions. Deal with it! Bring on the patch I been waiting years for this.



I agree everyone wanted consequences, but not trough PVE and orbiting buttons. That's the main issue.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#14 - 2012-05-14 14:29:32 UTC
I propose we should first wait for the patch to come out and then start whining.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#15 - 2012-05-14 15:08:43 UTC
Never! That would actually be sensible.

Meditril wrote:
I propose we should first wait for the patch to come out and then start whining.

nom nom
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#16 - 2012-05-14 15:35:56 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
Never! That would actually be sensible.


No, that would be "doing your best impression of a person without a brain." Don't anticipate, don't reason, don't plan. Stand in one spot, watching a a fist fly towards your face, so that you can be shocked when you find that you've been struck, and that your nose is bleeding. So that you can ask: how could anyone have predicted this outcome? How could anyone have known this would happen? You'll ask those questions not to get answers but to suggest that nobody could have done either, and therefore that you cannot be culpable for having actually welcomed the fist.

Now, one might uncharitably suspect that you, rather than stand around pretending to not have a brain, have actually made use of it to conclude that you (but not some others) should welcome what's to come. Having concluded that, "hey guys let's all shut the **** up and not try to dissuade CCP from implementing any part of this" is just malign encouragement. If you'd concluded that these others should also welcome what's to come, it would be easy enough to share your thoughts to that effect.

But I'll be happy to agree that you're both brainless, rather than malign :)
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-05-14 15:41:22 UTC
OP is still whinning about something that is coming.

Dude its coming, just deal. Once its out then you can complain but all your are doing at this point is forum spamming with the same thing

"I dont wannnnnaaaa doooo thiissss"

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Dare Knight
Bandwagoners
#18 - 2012-05-14 16:23:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Dare Knight
BolsterBomb wrote:
OP is still whinning about something that is coming.

Dude its coming, just deal. Once its out then you can complain but all your are doing at this point is forum spamming with the same thing

"I dont wannnnnaaaa doooo thiissss"



There's nothing wrong with forward-thinking discussion about a patch that's going to come out. Anyone remember ambulation? We whined about that, and it ended up being a terrible release.

Besides, it's not whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa it's a well constructed well thought out discussional post. Unlike some other posts about how incursions need to all be moved to lowsec or how CCP should never ever change the game because certain vets can't adapt.

_It's very simple, really. If you see Tengus on scan, they are ratting. If you see a shitload of Tengus, the Russians are blobbing. If you see Proteuses on scan, they will be on top of you in about a second. If you see a shitload of Proteuses, the big boys are having a goodfight. _
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-05-14 16:27:07 UTC
Dare Knight wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
OP is still whinning about something that is coming.

Dude its coming, just deal. Once its out then you can complain but all your are doing at this point is forum spamming with the same thing

"I dont wannnnnaaaa doooo thiissss"



There's nothing wrong with forward-thinking discussion about a patch that's going to come out. Anyone remember ambulation? We whined about that, and it ended up being a terrible release.

Besides, it's not whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa it's a well constructed well thought out discussional post. Unlike some other posts about how incursions need to all be moved to lowsec or how CCP should never ever change the game because certain vets can't adapt.



It was well thought out an constructive 10 post ago...thats my point. Everyone already knows what we want forward thinking. It just gets old when you see the same thing 100 times from the same guy

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Dare Knight
Bandwagoners
#20 - 2012-05-14 16:32:15 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
It was well thought out an constructive 10 post ago...thats my point. Everyone already knows what we want forward thinking. It just gets old when you see the same thing 100 times from the same guy


..Well yeah, okay, I gotta give you that. I honestly only saw two of his threads here in W&T. Didn't realize there were more. I know he posted in the CSM forums about it.

+1 and an apology to you, good sir. o7

_It's very simple, really. If you see Tengus on scan, they are ratting. If you see a shitload of Tengus, the Russians are blobbing. If you see Proteuses on scan, they will be on top of you in about a second. If you see a shitload of Proteuses, the big boys are having a goodfight. _
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