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anyone ever been banned for griefing in EVE?

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Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#21 - 2012-05-11 04:55:27 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
This is why it's better to leave it to the professionals to decide what constitutes as griefing and what isn't.


Firstly, I like it when I know if my actions would get me banned before I do them


When in doubt, petition. If you ask 50 people a question you will receive 50 different answers and you will be no closer than where you were before you asked. If you ask the people who make the rules not only will you receive a clear answer, you will have documentation that you can fall on in case somebody does call you on it.


Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Secondly I like having hard, written rules for what is and isnt gonna GET me banned


You set yourself up to be disappointed then. Rules change all the time. Players are always finding new and fascinating ways to bend the rules, ways that the company may not have foreseen. It is then up to the company to decide if it should be allowed or not. 2 examples would be boomerang and dec shield. Up until recently dec shield was considered an exploit, and now its not. Up until recently people were pulling a boomerang, and now they can't. Asking here is like the blind leading the blind through the maze.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#22 - 2012-05-11 05:00:06 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:


You set yourself up to be disappointed then. Rules change all the time. Players are always finding new and fascinating ways to bend the rules, ways that the company may not have foreseen. It is then up to the company to decide if it should be allowed or not. 2 examples would be boomerang and dec shield. Up until recently dec shield was considered an exploit, and now its not. Up until recently people were pulling a boomerang, and now they can't. Asking here is like the blind leading the blind through the maze.


Like how POS Bowling wasnt till a lotta ppl used it lol

I was hoping FOR a clarification. Like the guy that asked for a clarification on the starter system rules and got like 5 Dev replies

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#23 - 2012-05-11 05:04:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Micheal Dietrich
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:


You set yourself up to be disappointed then. Rules change all the time. Players are always finding new and fascinating ways to bend the rules, ways that the company may not have foreseen. It is then up to the company to decide if it should be allowed or not. 2 examples would be boomerang and dec shield. Up until recently dec shield was considered an exploit, and now its not. Up until recently people were pulling a boomerang, and now they can't. Asking here is like the blind leading the blind through the maze.


Like how POS Bowling wasnt till a lotta ppl used it lol

I was hoping FOR a clarification. Like the guy that asked for a clarification on the starter system rules and got like 5 Dev replies


I hope you took note that he was very specific in what he asked for. Are you looking for clarification of what is and isn't a bannable offense for this week?

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#24 - 2012-05-11 05:24:36 UTC
I thought the discussion was about griefing and not exploiting.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-05-11 06:28:54 UTC
I dont know anyone who has been banned for it but i have seen and heard about it.


When i was a few weeks old a gang of dedicated griefers told me that they would wardec me until i gave up playing the game. It lasted for over a month and i was getting emails for over a year.


I know a guy who would not let someone else out of a station for 2 months over some suposed insult and another guy who just liked to pick people and then grief them out of the game.


It does happen and it happens more than people think 
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#26 - 2012-05-11 07:36:47 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
I dont know anyone who has been banned for it but i have seen and heard about it.


When i was a few weeks old a gang of dedicated griefers told me that they would wardec me until i gave up playing the game. It lasted for over a month and i was getting emails for over a year.


I know a guy who would not let someone else out of a station for 2 months over some suposed insult and another guy who just liked to pick people and then grief them out of the game.


It does happen and it happens more than people think


And things like that should be reported... were they and were they blown off?

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Aron Croup
Incompatible Protocol
#27 - 2012-05-11 08:33:00 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
I see ppl all over the place QQing about Goons "griefing" but if you dont get banned/warned for it .... its not griefing.
If CCP is cool with it its not griefing.

So Ive asked this a number of times in other threads and never got an answer.

HAS anyone ever gotten banned from the game for in game griefing?
Not talking in newbie systems, thats a special case cause CCP likes retaining new players.

EDIT: Typo, Banned


Without the knowledge of any specific situation, I would think CCP distinguishes against general type griefing such as the hulkageddon and other Goon-like activities, and aggressively griefing one person.

If you start getting nasty EVE mails and convo's, people follow you around wherever you go and you get a sense that this is something more than just an in-game feud, common sense would dictate that you have grounds for a petition and the offending party might receive a warning to cease and desist.
GM Grave
Game Masters
C C P Alliance
#28 - 2012-05-11 10:08:34 UTC  |  Edited by: GM Grave
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
HAS anyone ever gotten banned from the game for in game griefing?


We have indeed banned players for griefing, however we judge petitions on a case by case basis, and while lighter offences may receive an official warning, should even these lighter offences stack up on an a players accounts then they would find themselves receiving stronger measures such as temporary bans and in cases were people prove continually disruptive we do remove them from the game on a permanent basis.

Simply speaking, at the end of the day we're all paying good money/ISK to play EVE Online together, and CCP will not tolerate those who choose to ruin the experience of others by taking things too far and violating the policies which each player has agreed to uphold.

Lead GM Grave | Senior Project Lead | CCP Customer Support | EVE Online | DUST 514
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#29 - 2012-05-11 10:50:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
GM Grave wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
HAS anyone ever gotten banned from the game for in game griefing?


We have indeed banned players for griefing, however we judge petitions on a case by case basis, and while lighter offences may receive an official warning, should even these lighter offences stack up on an a players accounts then they would find themselves receiving stronger measures such as temporary bans and in cases were people prove continually disruptive we do remove them from the game on a permanent basis.

Simply speaking, at the end of the day we're all paying good money/ISK to play EVE Online together, and CCP will not tolerate those who choose to ruin the experience of others by taking things too far and violating the policies which each player has agreed to uphold.


Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336

Quote:
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.

This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.

An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items in front of a station in a starter system and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in starter tutorial complexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.




Those policies that have been very easy to avoid as explained by the posts in the thread so far? You HAVE to see that this is a very hard thing to pin down in this game. I mean Hulkageddon looks like it to the miners, especially now that its lasting a month/months but as we saw earlier that doesnt count cause its not ont griefing one guy for no reason. Its everyone killing miners for monetary gain not just for the ganker's fun.

Im not trying to question your ruling, its just pretty much everything that looks like griefing, even if it follows the definition above usually isnt if you can talk fast. "I dis it for the lulz" becomes "I did it to get their cargo" is confronted by a GM. Stuff like that. A suggestion would be a less arbitrary rule.

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-05-11 11:21:48 UTC
"Grief is good"

- The griefing Gecko.

It's all good if it is within the meant game mechanics, right? Then events like Hulkageddon, burn Jita and whatnot else are perfectly fine.

Concord isn't there to provide total immunity for those in high-sec after all.

Now, picking on a single player (or perhaps even a small group of players - grey zone?) for the sheer heck of it without any real goal or purpose is not griefing anymore. That's harassment. Though the big question remains: would it still be harassment if the target happened to be flying the most expensively fit ship you've ever seen, regardless of whether the end goal is to blow up said ship or not?
Mors Magne
Terra Incognita
#31 - 2012-05-11 11:37:08 UTC
GM Grave wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
HAS anyone ever gotten banned from the game for in game griefing?


We have indeed banned players for griefing, however we judge petitions on a case by case basis, and while lighter offences may receive an official warning, should even these lighter offences stack up on an a players accounts then they would find themselves receiving stronger measures such as temporary bans and in cases were people prove continually disruptive we do remove them from the game on a permanent basis.

Simply speaking, at the end of the day we're all paying good money/ISK to play EVE Online together, and CCP will not tolerate those who choose to ruin the experience of others by taking things too far and violating the policies which each player has agreed to uphold.



I'd love to hear an example.

I thought Eve Online was all about griefing!
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-05-11 11:55:25 UTC
Zombie Corp got banned for griefing
Tank CEO got banned to.
GM Grave
Game Masters
C C P Alliance
#33 - 2012-05-11 12:24:35 UTC
While EVE Online is a universe in which you can rob a corp hanger, scam a market order , suicide gank or declare CONCORD sanctioned war on pretty much anyone. Some people still feel the need to take things further and go off the deep end, one example being when **** ** *** ******** ****** ** **** *** *********** ******** ********* ** ******** ******* ****** ****, and then of course CCP opened a can of whoopass and taught those perps a lesson.

Lead GM Grave | Senior Project Lead | CCP Customer Support | EVE Online | DUST 514
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-05-11 12:32:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Malphilos
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Im not trying to question your ruling, its just pretty much everything that looks like griefing, even if it follows the definition above usually isnt if you can talk fast. "I dis it for the lulz" becomes "I did it to get their cargo" is confronted by a GM. Stuff like that. A suggestion would be a less arbitrary rule.


Not that it'll go anywhere, but in the case of Hulkageddon I don't think the actual gankers would be in violation of the rule as written, they can claim they're doing it for prizes.

However, it seems like the people paying to have miners ganked for the lulz and not profits might be covered. But obviously they're not. I wonder about the hypothetical situation where someone sponsored a program to have a particular individual ganked "for the lulz", would that be covered?

In that case, you'd just have to write the contract spec specifically enough and you'd still be in compliance. Or so it would seem.
Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-05-11 12:47:51 UTC
GM Grave wrote:
Some people still feel the need to take things further and go off the deep end, one example being when **** ** *** ******** ****** ** **** *** *********** ******** ********* ** ******** ******* ****** ****, and then of course CCP opened a can of whoopass and taught those perps a lesson.


wait a minute let me get the translator for this
Lol
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-05-11 12:58:15 UTC
Mittani was banned...he was greifing IN EVE while OUT of EVE but at the same time while AT EVE. That takes talent.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#37 - 2012-05-11 13:32:06 UTC
Well, as long as I have a very valid ingame reason to make someone's life ingame miserable I think I am covered.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#38 - 2012-05-11 14:30:04 UTC
I looked at the policies and noticed this:

"An immediate permanent ban of an account may result if a player:

a. Organizes or participates in a corporation or group that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies. "

What about hating those who choose to live in high sec?

What about hating those who enjoy mining?

What about hating those who, through no fault of their own, get no enjoyment from PvP combat and thus avoid it?

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Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2012-05-11 14:34:43 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
I looked at the policies and noticed this:

"An immediate permanent ban of an account may result if a player:

a. Organizes or participates in a corporation or group that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies. "

What about hating those who choose to live in high sec?

What about hating those who enjoy mining?

What about hating those who, through no fault of their own, get no enjoyment from PvP combat and thus avoid it?



What about them?
Razgriz Shaishi
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-05-11 15:08:51 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
I looked at the policies and noticed this:

"An immediate permanent ban of an account may result if a player:

a. Organizes or participates in a corporation or group that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies. "

What about hating those who choose to live in high sec?

What about hating those who enjoy mining?

What about hating those who, through no fault of their own, get no enjoyment from PvP combat and thus avoid it?

Cause those 3 examples you listed are ingame groups, while the examples that CCP gave are all out of game type stuff.
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