These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Thinking about checking out FW again with the upcoming changes - a few questions.

Author
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#1 - 2012-05-09 14:13:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
After having pulled out my last alt out of FW about 3 years ago (joined on EA release day), I thought I may check it out again with all the upcoming changes.

Standing-wise, I can pretty much join any militia on various characters and since I have the choice, a few questions arose:

1. Is paranoia - especially concerning new players - still as rampant as when I left?

I'm asking because one of the characters I considered joining with is a noob alt I've been skilling up for the last couple of months - I'm also not that keen to join a corp right away, so will noobs from the general militia chat be picked up for fleets at all?

2. Is there a good mix of various size gangs and ship types or is it just either blobs or LP-farmers in stealth bombers?

3. Any differences in the typical engagement style concerning Amarr/Minmatar or Gallente/Caldari Theaters? (If there is such a thing as a 'typical engagement style').

4. What's the pirate situation in the respective areas?

5. Were standing mechanics concerning plexes ever changed in the meantime?

(With the new changes, I guess plexing will become important, but although I never did FW missions and tended to just enter plexes to find fights, I've ruined my opposing faction standings at an absurd speed - it actually forced me to switch alts after the first few months and never capture a plex again on the second character.)

Will post more questions as they arise

Thanks for your time :)
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#2 - 2012-05-09 14:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Ill answer from the amarr militia side as best I can. I'm a fairly casual player though so my impressions are based on that.

Large Collidable Object wrote:
After having pulled out my last alt out of FW about 3 years ago (joined on EA release day), I thought I may check it out again with all the upcoming changes.

Standing-wise, I can pretty much join any militia on various characters and since I have the choice, a few questions arose:

1. Is paranoia - especially concerning new players - still as rampant as when I left?

I'm asking because one of the characters I considered joining with is a noob alt I've been skilling up for the last couple of months - I'm also not that keen to join a corp right away, so will noobs from the general militia chat be picked up for fleets at all?


I think you are going to find this a mixed bag. I never really ran in the npc corp much looking for fleets so I cant say for sure. You best bet is to try to get some kills against the wts and try to join a corp.

Large Collidable Object wrote:

2. Is there a good mix of various size gangs and ship types or is it just either blobs or LP-farmers in stealth bombers??


I think there is a fantastic mix of ships. Usually bc and down. Occassional big fleets with caps but that is more the exception than the rule. But you can expect allot of afs cruisers pirate faction cruisers destroyers etc. I think the mix of ships is really great in faction war.

Yeah there are allot of bombers running missions but I just ignore them for the most part and they don't bother me.

IMO Not too many blobs on the amarr minmatar front. It used to be blobbier imo.


Large Collidable Object wrote:

3. Any differences in the typical engagement style concerning Amarr/Minmatar or Gallente/Caldari Theaters? (If there is such a thing as a 'typical engagement style').


I can't say whether this is throughout the militia or just how I have been playing but faction war right now is allot less formal fleets with scouts in every system within 5 jumps, and much more casual gangs and solo pilots. There are larger battles too but from my experience its more casual overall.

Large Collidable Object wrote:

4. What's the pirate situation in the respective areas?


I think it has improved. Lots of them will do small gang stuff and they do not just do allot of gate camps. They will often come in plexes to fight. I think fighting pirates and other neutrals has been an improvement. Maybe they also agree that fw has gotten a bit less blobby and are more willing to engage. You would have to ask them.


Large Collidable Object wrote:

5. Were standing mechanics concerning plexes ever changed in the meantime?


This hasn't changed. Whether they will change it for inferno I don't know. But I think its shooting the enemy npcs that kills your standing.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#3 - 2012-05-09 15:33:21 UTC
1. Joining the NPC corp will p much get you nowhere indeed. Most FCs choose not to bother with NPC corp players not only due to spy paranoia, which as far as Gal Mil isn't as big (caldari seem to be concerned about it a bit more), but also because it means not going trough a recruitment process, no one checked your skills, pvp knowledge, etc.

TL;DR You won't get in too many fleets by joining the NPC corp.

2. Yes it is . Anything from rifters in minor plexes to cap fights with 50+ caps on the field, allthough those are mostly against pirate entities.

3. I'd say Gal/Cal area has more non FW entities, so there's more stuff to shoot at, but other than that all militias have all types of players and there is not typical engagement style (see #2)

4. As mentioned above, Gal/Cal area has a lot of good pirate entities that will put up a fight (Snuff, BYDI, 1917, Shadow Cartel, etc.), while the Amarr/Minnie area p much only has a few pies in Amamake and not much else.

5. Someone else will have to take this, I don't plex much.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#4 - 2012-05-09 15:42:35 UTC
Cearain wrote:


I think you are going to find this a mixed bag. I never really ran in the npc corp much looking for fleets so I cant say for sure. You best bet is to try to get some kills against the wts and try to join a corp.


Well - I'll see about joining a corp - main reason I want to join is just because I used to do it and want to see for myself how the changes work out

Quote:
I think there is a fantastic mix of ships. Usually bc and down. Occassional big fleets with caps but that is more the exception than the rule. But you can expect allot of afs cruisers pirate faction cruisers destroyers etc. I think the mix of ships is really great in faction war.

Yeah there are allot of bombers running missions but I just ignore them for the most part and they don't bother me.

IMO Not too many blobs on the amarr minmatar front. It used to be blobbier imo.


Sounds good, although I don't know how things were in the meantime - during my time in the militia there were still lots of nano-gangs running around in the beginning because it wasn't nerfed yet. Later we used to use all kinds of gangs, with the blobbier fights usually taking place in RR BSs and about 80-100 pilots on each side max.

I had Caps in the area at the time (lol - still have a Dread there) but only used them in a handful of fights and they were a very rare sight in FW during that time - mostly fielded by pirates or other third parties in the area.

I assume cap use has increased in the meantime but has become less now again?


Quote:
I can't say whether this is throughout the militia or just how I have been playing but faction war right now is allot less formal fleets with scouts in every system within 5 jumps, and much more casual gangs and solo pilots. There are larger battles too but from my experience its more casual overall.


Sounds very good - is that the same accross timezones? With you mentioning less blobby and formal fleets, I assume nephilim xeno has left ;)?


Quote:
I think it has improved. Lots of them will do small gang stuff and they do not just do allot of gate camps. They will often come in plexes to fight. I think fighting pirates and other neutrals has been an improvement. Maybe they also agree that fw has gotten a bit less blobby and are more willing to engage. You would have to ask them.


Well - the reason I was asking for the pirate situation was because of the new docking mechanics, I will need multiple characters in the area to keep access to stuff in flipped systems - so I thought I'd maybe put the noobish alt in one of the militias and join some local pirates with one of my higher SP characters.

Quote:

This hasn't changed. Whether they will change it for inferno I don't know. But I think its shooting the enemy npcs that kills your standing.


I hope they change it - I'd hate messing up my standings beyond repair and on the higher SP characters, I've used up cosmos agents to fix standings from the fist time I was around.

Are the roleplayers in the Amarr Militia still hurf-blurfing around feeling themselves entitled to 'run' the militia? PIE was a fine bunch, but I remember CVA KOS-listing pretty much every corp I used to fly with (Gdip, TDRS, Slackers/ Helljumpers etc...) and especially some guys in 1PG being complete loons. It wasn't about being KOS-listed but their unbearable amount of idiocy and butthurt. It would help me in deciding which militia to join.

Thanks btw :)
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#5 - 2012-05-09 21:41:57 UTC

I don't really get involved with the politics in faction war. I am not an EU tz player so i didn't join any of nephilims fleets. Early when I was new to eve I used to be in Garst Tyrell's fleets and other smaller corp fleets - this was after the nano nerf.

Those fleets seemed to be tighter run than what I found after I got back from rvb. In tyrell's fleets scouts were everywhere and people seemed more concerned about losing their ships. You also heard about isk effeciency more. BTW it wasn't because of Garst it was just the militia in general. Flying in those fleets with garst was allot of fun dont get me wrong. Maybe it was just that I was new and I was more nervous and concerned about isk IDK.

Now the gangs that I run with seem much looser. If we only have 2 or 3 thats fine we will still go out. (I actuall mostly go out solo) If the minmatar have a blob somewhere thats fine we will just roam several jumps away. Generally it just seems there are more fcs and perhaps that is why there are more small gangs.

Also I will say that the minmatar after I got back seemed to be running in smaller gangs. Perhaps they just have more fcs and more people to roam solo too.


I would say you might want to try faction war before this change to see if there is much of a difference before and after.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Large Collidable Object
morons.
#6 - 2012-05-09 22:30:04 UTC
Cearain wrote:

I don't really get involved with the politics in faction war. I am not an EU tz player so i didn't join any of nephilims fleets. Early when I was new to eve I used to be in Garst Tyrell's fleets and other smaller corp fleets - this was after the nano nerf.

Those fleets seemed to be tighter run than what I found after I got back from rvb. In tyrell's fleets scouts were everywhere and people seemed more concerned about losing their ships. You also heard about isk effeciency more. BTW it wasn't because of Garst it was just the militia in general. Flying in those fleets with garst was allot of fun dont get me wrong. Maybe it was just that I was new and I was more nervous and concerned about isk IDK.

Now the gangs that I run with seem much looser. If we only have 2 or 3 thats fine we will still go out. (I actuall mostly go out solo) If the minmatar have a blob somewhere thats fine we will just roam several jumps away. Generally it just seems there are more fcs and perhaps that is why there are more small gangs.

Also I will say that the minmatar after I got back seemed to be running in smaller gangs. Perhaps they just have more fcs and more people to roam solo too.


I would say you might want to try faction war before this change to see if there is much of a difference before and after.



I used to fly with Garst FCing a couple of times briefly before I quit FW - was mostly when no mercy was decced by the star fraction - it was fun and not really overorganized back then imho, but then, that's personal perception.

I scouted some of the former choke-point systems earlier today and was surprised about the rather low activity and the amount of T1 frigs moving through - looks like my noob alt would be fine.

A bit disappointed there aren't many pirates around - besides heretics, there always used to be some in Sahtogas (their name escapes me currently - but they were pretty bad and provided nice KMs).


Joining Amarr/Min would certainly have advantages as I still have a couple of hundered BMs there.

Hopefully, I'll also hear some more about gal/cal, too.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
SigmaPi
Ambivalent Inc
Coney Island Ski Club
#7 - 2012-05-09 23:19:43 UTC
We have jumpclones in gal/cal land - it's much more busy (especially with neutrals) than the min/amarr area ever will be. There is just so much more access on that side than on this side, but meh.

Cearain nailed most of this stuff, I'd say. We (the minnies) regularly go out in BC and down fleets, but you'll also see large groups of :whatever: to get into plexes in any given system. That's one of the amazing things about FW - you don't have to follow anyone's plan if you don't want to. Just get in a rifter and blow some **** up.
L0rdF1end
Tactical Grace.
Vanguard.
#8 - 2012-05-10 14:52:57 UTC
My god, you must have the ugliest face in Eve, +1.
TRUE ZER0
SILENT INC
#9 - 2012-05-10 16:49:32 UTC  |  Edited by: TRUE ZER0
1. Is paranoia - especially concerning new players - still as rampant as when I left?

Pretty much with the Amarr/Minnie/Cald. The Gal just ignore if they don't know you.


2. Is there a good mix of various size gangs and ship types or is it just either blobs or LP-farmers in stealth bombers?

You will find use for all ship classes in FW.

3. Any differences in the typical engagement style concerning Amarr/Minmatar or Gallente/Caldari Theaters? (If there is such a thing as a 'typical engagement style').

Galls seem to like the armor a bit more than others. Minnies like Thier speedy stuff. Amarr a mix. Truth is most of us in the 3 militias are heavily cross trained. Really no diffence than 0.0 cept the bubbles and bombs.

4. What's the pirate situation in the respective areas?

Pretty sure we are the pirate situation. Minnie's were probably the first, but we're all pretty much NBSI cept maybe some of the Amarr RPers

5. Were standing mechanics concerning plexes ever changed in the meantime?

Circle a button, what else can you say.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#10 - 2012-05-10 21:54:04 UTC
Thanks all for your helpful replies - most question have been answered and I'll probably have to find out the rest for myself.

One last question though, as I feared it would derail the thread into a smackfest if asked in the OP and that would help me which one to pick:

What militia is considered the weakest currently? I remember the behaviour on the Min/Amarr front was cyclic, but I stuck with Amarr because it was by far the smallest militia back then. I like a challenge and hate to join the winning team.

Read some pretty bad things about Caldari when checking recently, which would make it a challenge, but I disliked their attitude during my time (biggest militia but all farming and plexing all the time), so I think that's the least likely option atm unless that changed...
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#11 - 2012-05-10 22:28:36 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Thanks all for your helpful replies - most question have been answered and I'll probably have to find out the rest for myself.

One last question though, as I feared it would derail the thread into a smackfest if asked in the OP and that would help me which one to pick:

What militia is considered the weakest currently? I remember the behaviour on the Min/Amarr front was cyclic, but I stuck with Amarr because it was by far the smallest militia back then. I like a challenge and hate to join the winning team.

Read some pretty bad things about Caldari when checking recently, which would make it a challenge, but I disliked their attitude during my time (biggest militia but all farming and plexing all the time), so I think that's the least likely option atm unless that changed...


Amarr and Caldari are, in general, undermanned and undergunned. Obviously, this goes in cycles and it's hard to say for how long this will remain true.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Maz3r Rakum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-05-10 22:35:54 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Thanks all for your helpful replies - most question have been answered and I'll probably have to find out the rest for myself.

One last question though, as I feared it would derail the thread into a smackfest if asked in the OP and that would help me which one to pick:

What militia is considered the weakest currently? I remember the behaviour on the Min/Amarr front was cyclic, but I stuck with Amarr because it was by far the smallest militia back then. I like a challenge and hate to join the winning team.

Read some pretty bad things about Caldari when checking recently, which would make it a challenge, but I disliked their attitude during my time (biggest militia but all farming and plexing all the time), so I think that's the least likely option atm unless that changed...


Amarr and Caldari are, in general, undermanned and undergunned. Obviously, this goes in cycles and it's hard to say for how long this will remain true.


I'm afraid station lock out and the sov warfare via plexing might kill the cycle :(
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#13 - 2012-05-10 22:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Vordak Kallager
Maz3r Rakum wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Thanks all for your helpful replies - most question have been answered and I'll probably have to find out the rest for myself.

One last question though, as I feared it would derail the thread into a smackfest if asked in the OP and that would help me which one to pick:

What militia is considered the weakest currently? I remember the behaviour on the Min/Amarr front was cyclic, but I stuck with Amarr because it was by far the smallest militia back then. I like a challenge and hate to join the winning team.

Read some pretty bad things about Caldari when checking recently, which would make it a challenge, but I disliked their attitude during my time (biggest militia but all farming and plexing all the time), so I think that's the least likely option atm unless that changed...


Amarr and Caldari are, in general, undermanned and undergunned. Obviously, this goes in cycles and it's hard to say for how long this will remain true.


I'm afraid station lock out and the sov warfare via plexing might kill the cycle :(


The cycle can't be killed. Even if the Amarr completely collapse/vacate the warzone, the powerhouses of the Minmatar militia will get bored and leave FW and there will be a new blank slate to work off of.

However, I am very confident that won't happen despite all the nay-saying and boo-hooing from the Amarr. You'll all realize that cross TZ communication is actually important and leaders within your militia will step up instead of it being some fractious ****-show that it currently is. Really, the only difference between the Amarr and Minmatar is our willingness to cooperate with all entities in our militia. It gives the illusion of superior numbers and the reality of effectiveness and competence. Our positions have been reversed before, we made it work. You can too! I believe in you!

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#14 - 2012-05-11 01:36:41 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
...but I stuck with Amarr because it was by far the smallest militia back then. I like a challenge and hate to join the winning team. ...



You'll almost certainly want to be on the winning side here unless you are so space rich you don't know what to do with your isk.

But even then you have to understand that with every kill your enemy gets they will effectively get several times the amount of lp you will get for killing them. That assumes the same exact ship and fittings. If none of that sickens you then join amarr! But if you are the least bit rational you will join minmatar.

As for caldari and gallente I really don't know. Gallente have the upper hand now but caldari have some long term advantages. 1) most people don't want to be locked out of jita - if a big alliance joins they will almost certainly not fight for gallente for this reason let alone all the individuals who will be deciding against gallente for this reason. 2) Lots of people just pick the faction of their race. I know caldari used to be the most popular race and it likely still is. So that front may be more interesting.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

TRUE ZER0
SILENT INC
#15 - 2012-05-11 02:02:14 UTC
Gall was my first and has always had a special place in my heart. Amarr had lots of great guy like Cearain. Don't be fooled by forum post, some of the nicest guys seem like asshats on the forums. Includung this guy, if you even know who I am. But Amarr was pretty dead by time I left. Solo roaming gets boring after awhile.

Joined Caldari because I had friends there, but never really cared for it. I can't rationalize it, just how I felt.

Joined Minimatar because I was bored and was there before when my gall corp switched. Never connected with them. Don't blame them though, had been killing minnies for a couple years. They were polite but never invited me on a roam.Cry

Joined Gallente again and I'm happy to be home. In the month I've been haven't seen many Caldari but lots of good fights with pies.


Been doing militia for at least 3 years, and I would say each militia has it's own personality. Finding the one that fits you may be difficult. Gallente and Amarr were best for me. All Militia have asshats!


As far as grinding, did all 4 with one character.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#16 - 2012-05-11 02:35:48 UTC
TRUE ZER0 wrote:
Gall was my first and has always had a special place in my heart. Amarr had lots of great guy like Cearain. Don't be fooled by forum post, some of the nicest guys seem like asshats on the forums. Includung this guy, ....



LOL thanks I will take that as a compliment. When you are as cantankerous as I am you have to focus on the few positives people throw you. Smile

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#17 - 2012-05-11 03:54:11 UTC
Cearain wrote:
TRUE ZER0 wrote:
Gall was my first and has always had a special place in my heart. Amarr had lots of great guy like Cearain. Don't be fooled by forum post, some of the nicest guys seem like asshats on the forums. Includung this guy, ....



LOL thanks I will take that as a compliment. When you are as cantankerous as I am you have to focus on the few positives people throw you. Smile


Really? I think you (Cearain) have pretty good forum-fu and are a good Pew-Pewer to boot. Big smile

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#18 - 2012-05-11 06:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Thanks all for your helpful replies - most question have been answered and I'll probably have to find out the rest for myself.

One last question though, as I feared it would derail the thread into a smackfest if asked in the OP and that would help me which one to pick:

What militia is considered the weakest currently? I remember the behaviour on the Min/Amarr front was cyclic, but I stuck with Amarr because it was by far the smallest militia back then. I like a challenge and hate to join the winning team.

Read some pretty bad things about Caldari when checking recently, which would make it a challenge, but I disliked their attitude during my time (biggest militia but all farming and plexing all the time), so I think that's the least likely option atm unless that changed...


Gallente/Caldari side has tons of pirate groups. And don't forget that even if targets run dry, you can roam into Syndicate which is rich with targets.

I don't believe the Amarr/Caldari are outnumbered nor outmanned. They just aren't as organized. I know without a doubt that the Caldari have large numbers. I've crunched the numbers and in terms of manpower, they have it. So it's not that they're weak in terms of numbers. It's just that there isn't 1 or 2 individuals who is willing to do some politicking and unite the major corps and egos involved. I know there are a couple people who have tried and from what I am told, people didn't listen to them because they lacked the credibility or came off as tards :)

But, it's not a coincidence that the 2 militias with the most alliances are dominating the landscape. Allowing alliances in FW have greatly helped people get more organized.

Just to give you some perspective. My corp is new to FW as of 3 months ago. We've risen in the KB ranks from 18 to 6 to ranking #3 in kills and I don't even think we're that good...yet. So if we can do it, there's no reason other corps can't do it regardless of faction.

But one of the factors that has helped my corp succeed (other than my sage wisdom and leadership ofc :) )was the kind hand of our older Gallente brothers. I really do believe that if you took some of the Caldari corps that are struggling right now and put them on the Gallente side, they'd learn so much more and grow into decent combat pilots. Lots of solid Senior and Junior FCs and there are some great small gang pilots.And as Vordak alluded to, the cross co-operation is what makes us strong.

Individually, each of the caldari corps would get murdered by what is referred to now as the Jesus Blob. But if they start working together as a team, you would see some major epic fights and quite frankly, they could blob us at will.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .