Player Features and Ideas Discussion

A common and recurring complaint I hear from friends in FW is summed up pretty easily in two words: NPC EWAR.

More specifically:
Amarr Militia: "OMG my frigate is suddenly a stationary battleship because the Minmatar NPCs have hax webifiers and target painters!"
Caldari Militia: "OMG I can't target anything because the Gallente NPCs are damping my targeting range down to 5km!"
Gallente Militia: "OMG I can't target anything because the Caldari NPCs are permajamming me!"
Minmatar Militia: "OMG I can't hit anything because I was already fighting in falloff and the Amarr NPCs are tracking distrupting me!" (alternatively: "lol, tracking disruption doesn't work on stealth bombers, n00b NPCs")

Are you only interested in FW Complex NPCs or are you also looking at FW Mission NPCs?

If we don't want NPCs messing up PvP (I don't), but don't want to ditch them entirely (I don't), a possible solution would be to make the plex have two rooms: one with the NPCs and one with the actual plex timer. Hostile militia that warp to the plex and take the accel gate in wind up in the first room and need to kill all the NPCs to unlock a second gate. Friendly militia just go straight to the final room. (This also gives an advantage to defenders who respond quickly or attackers who can clear the NPCs quickly).

This doesn't solve the issue of NPC difficulty/numbers, but it does mean that you're not going to lose a fight because the rats had you webbed or TDed. It also prevents people from AFK speed tanking plexes, since you will have to kill the rats.

As far as FW Plexes go:
Um... actually these aren't the sentiments at all. For the most part the main frustration with EWAR is with Caldari rats which can be particularly nasty if they happen to get multiple jamming cycles off, and additionally they use missiles which makes it tougher to mitigate NPC damage during a fight. Overall, this is compounded by introducing fairly standard PvE fights as the backdrop for PvP activities, which gives offensive pilots a significant advantage since they can fit specifically for PvP. Plus with their current implementation, FW plexes are just plain boring and really lack a meaningful objective. In theory they should feel like an assault on an enemy facility, but in practice it's a mind numbing timed grind.

The only good thing the FW plexes have going for them is they provide a way to accrue navy tags, and do a pretty good job of promoting skirmish PvP.

Now for some suck mitigation:
1. Do we need/want FW plex (or general navy) NPCs? I think that unless they convey at least some semblance of the wider conflict they should be removed.

2. NPCs should actually do something. For instance, could a FW plex be a mini-scenario, like a disabled freighter that has RR and a small defense fleet that is guarding against an opposing strike force?

3. NPCs should help - not hinder - immersion. So yes, fewer NPCs with more advanced AI would be a good start. Also why not have both NPC navies represented in the FW plexes (witth the advantage to the defenders)? This reinforces the idea of an active conflict, and you might be able to introduce some weak friendly NPC RR that GTFOs once an enemy player joins the fray, which makes the plexes a bit more PvP fit friendly (especially buffer tanks).

Just some thoughts...

You could combine military NPC’s Amarr/Caldari and Gallente/ Minmatar joint fleets, this increases the number of damage types and weapon types a player faces and sits better for omni tanking.

Smaller smarter spawns. Damage output balanced for Omni tanks.

Link NPC strength to the system upgrade level; say NPC’s start at reduced Damage/ EHP to current level with incrementing stats at each level, Introduce NPC E-war at say level 3. This way as a system loses its system upgrades the plexes become easier and the offensive should gain momentum.

Change how tags work, it’s bad enough I have to orbit a timer but I also have to go round and pick up tags from each NPC just to get them for the LP Store.

Have them engage neutrals as if they are the enemy.

Spread aggro, target new ships so the first ship cannot just tank the spawn.

oh please please...
this would keep me in low sec for ever....
it allows PC to lead NPC followers.
Allows a solo Player to play against many if he know how to stratigically use the NPCs. I can Solo in a logitics ship. I can actually play on the Side of the NPCs - A first!

This should encourage timid new PVP players, I would expect to see some new players in Low sec... The NPCs should open a faction chat channel for those in system so they can report targets, broadcast for reps, report if someone is tackled. so the player being apart of the NPC fleet can feel apart of the fleet. Or report they have a tackle in another complex.

This would add a whole new play style in eve. a Unique play style ... is it ready on SISi yet. I want to test this out.. I need to test this out to make an informed decision. Other wise half of my self is battling the fear of the unknown.

Please this is a CRAZY idea and needs some play testing... there are just too many variable to just sit back and say Meh or YEH!!

I know this is work, but please allow us to test it before allowing this idea to be shot down.

Thanks

These sound like good ideas. Not so sure about the last one, but I don't think it will matter too much one way or the other.


If a WT enters a plex, the NPCs should shoot him no matter what standings he has. If a fellow militia member enters a plex, he should never be shot at - no matter what his faction standing is (unless he shoots first). Otherwise, set the standings for neutrals at whatever people think is important.

I wish plexes were capped based on when the last NPC dies (for the attacker). Nothing is more boring than sitting in a plex when nobody wants to fight you. Edit: For this reason plex timers should reset to the minimum of (baseline time, current time) to capture plex if it changes hands. Nobody likes orbiting a button against no competition for 29 minutes.

w.r.t balance. There's two things:
1. Damage
2. E-war

Both ought to be thought through. Hopefully making NPCs more pvp like, this issue will go away.

Maybe this is more a thing for the user interface guys and girls, but why are friendly NPC's in FW complexes shown as reds on the overview?

If the NPC's are on your side, either make them militia coloured on the overview; or neutral even.

This isn't so much NPC based but would first say I think that Tags are just an irritating aspect of PvE, they should be replaced with a Bounty... only rather than ISK you are earning Commendations.

Ship Size = Commendation Type
Ship Cost = Commendation Amount

You would earn these for both NPCs and Players. Remove the LP from Player Kills.
Honestly this just make far more sense overall... right now Tags are considered "Very Rare Items" so if you die, they instantly disappear rather than drop, they are also a HUGE pain in the ass to bother picking up because you earn such low quantities you have to grind for the damn things.

As it stands Faction Gear for the most part is just ridiculously over-priced. We should see far more of it on the market, and not be afraid to use all but the most basic and cheap hardware because that 1 Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field cost more than the entire ship we're flying on a Kill Report.

To me instead of increasing out ability to have larger wallets, just let us earn the equippment we need to get back in to a fight more cheaply. After all most of us care more about doing PvP than simply watching our wallets explode, this would also take care of those who join Faction Warfare simply to Mission Run or such; because they'll find what they were making a mint on suddenly has reduced to only being slightly better price-wise than Tech 2 hardware.

Loyalty from Complexes and Commendations from Combat to me provides the perfect blend in earning potencial that could be quickly turned around to deadly ships rather than having to do a trade hub run each time we need more hardware.

Also increase what we can buy via the LP Store. At the very least have them offer Tech 1 ships at baseline prices for us as opposed to what Goonswarm are forcing the market towards, little point in being rich if the market inflation is out-pacing our earning potencial.

As it stands the NPCs in a complex will stack, and stack, and stack. With a single Spawn being relatively easy to deal with solo, yet if someone forces a full spawn (or fails) blam next time you enter you have to deal with a full set of spawns. To me this makes complexes somewhere between a yawnfest and "**** I wish I'd brought friends"

Not to mention simply speed tanking a room is just far too easy, even with the changes on SiSi; I can still grab a throwaway rifter and solo them to my hearts content.

Instead what would make more sense is the idea of a Roaming NPC Fleet. The basic concept here is you have a Fleet in system, with let's say 50 NPC Pilots; they would be split in to 5x 10-man Squads... their job would be to patrol a system for that given Militia.

These squads could be split in to their intended patrol areas.
Commander (Carrier + Battleships) would Patrol the I-HUB, Major Unrestricted (Patrols Gates), Major (Patrols Stations), Medium (Patrols Planets), Minor (Patrols Belts)

When you enter the system, they wouldn't deviate from their Patrol Routes; but if they see you they would engage relying information to the other patrolling squads. You would be able to remain hidden in a Safe-Spot or Cosmic Anomaly.

Activating a Complex, wouldn't have NPCs inside but instead this would alert the NPCs in system with a given Squad Responding... they would enter via the same way we do (acceleration gate), with their objective to defend the Control Point.
Just as if a Player was there, when they are within range of the Control Point it would stop the timer; meaning you have to dispatch of them as quickly as possible to keep it going.

When they die instead of being well dead, they would return to the I-HUB and Reship from the Carrier. Meaning there would be a little downtime before they attack again, but they would keep coming back even once the site has been taken.

If however Friendly Militia enter the Complex, they would no longer return and either go to another complex that needs their attention or return to patrol duty.

In this way you will only EVER have a single wave of enemy to deal with that would continue to Harass you until the I-HUB becomes vunerable AND you have taken down their Carrier. If the I-HUB is still invunerable, it will respawn another Carrier (followed by the rest of the ships) after 5minutes.

Again if there are Friendly Militia on the Field, the NPCs will disengage (if they can) to return to a Safe Spot (perhaps the Sun) in the System.

The idea here is to have the PvE combat feel more like PvP Combat, with the honestly ridiculously boring aspect of Bunker Busting, which very rarely results in a fight between two sides have something interesting to also deal with. To me fighting over a system should be a very tough fight, against either NPCs or Players that requires us to work together rather than just run around as a solo player all day.

Only reason you see fleets for Bunker Busts come from the fact that they have a stupid amount of hitpoints like POSs, not because we couldn't do it alone just that it'd take all dang day.

I also think that the Complex sites themselves should make a bit more sense. As it stands we have to sit inside an imaginary circle until a timer says we're good... which honestly doesn't make any sense. "Oh no, the enemy has sat outside my Window for 10 minutes... well guess we should defect now!" - just ridiculous.

Instead what would make more sense (atleast to me) is if these Complex sites actually were tied to the Invunerability of the Infrastructer Hub. The sites themselves would also be protected by shield units and a small contingent of low-yield turrets designed to deter curious pilots.
[continued in post 2]

Regarding NPC EWAR:

While I cannot speak for the Caldari/Gallente front, this has been a major issue on the Amarr/Minmatar front; the classic example given for this is that while an ABing Vigil can solo an Amarr Major (let alone Medium) plex, at least two frigates or other small ship are required to run a Minmatar medium or Major plex - one to kite the NPCs and one to count the timer down. Moreover, if ANY of the subsequent spawns aggro on the button-counter, they will have to leave the plex and re-enter. Of course, an Amarr player could use a more appropriately sized ship for the plex size, but this puts them at a significant disadvantage - especially for newer players - compared to the Minmatar pilot who can take his ABing vigil almost anywhere and easily run if someone decides to come chasing them.

Looking over the database of NPCs at Games.chruker.dk, however, I noticed something else:

For Minmatar FW NPCs, 19 have various EWAR abilitiies (this includes web, scram, energy neuting, TPing, etc...). Amarr have 24 seperate NPCs with assorted EWAR abilities.

Here's the breakdown:
Webbing: A:4 / M: 6 - unsurprising; webbing is the secondary Minmatar racial EWAR type.
Warp Scrambling: A:4 / M:4 - a nice balance here
Primary racial EWAR type (TP/TD/etc): A:15 / M:12 - here's a surprise, Amarr actually have more NPCs doing their main EWAR
Energy Vampire: A:12 / M:2 - another surprise; Amarr have a much greater disparity among the number of ships using their secondary EWAR type than for the Minmatar secondary EWAR (webbing).

Considering the above, why is it that Amarr NPCs are by nearly everyone I've encountered generally agreed to be the easier NPCs to fight?

I would argue it's a combination of three things:
First, the Amarr EWAR types are highly dependent on range - that is, it is possibly to mitigate or entirely remove their effects by pulling range. Minmatar EWAR, on the other hand, can follow you out to extreme ranges.

Second, while Amarr EWAR is "defensive" - that is, it only limits your ability to engage the NPCs - Minmatar EWAR is "offensive", assisting the NPCs in their firing on you. Finally, there's that oft-cited disparity in missile use between Amarr and Minmatar NPCs, which becomes particularly pertinent when you consider the second point.

Finally, there is an extreme disparity in how far or how effectively the EWAR is utilized. For example, an Amarr NPC battleship has a 25% chance to neut you out to 10km, while a Minmatar battleship has a 75% chance to neut at up to 30km. Keepin in mind that energy neutralization is an Amarr EWAR type! The same is true for primary (racial-specific) EWAR types; one of the Minmatar basic cruisers, for example, is 100% more likely to engage its EWAR out to 10km farther than its Amarr counterpart.

Overall, therefor, Minmatar NPCs are far more likely to use their EWAR and will effect you regardless of what you are doing, compared to Amarr NPCs.



As a final note, as has been mentioned, the issue of disparity in missile use is a serious issue in the difficulty issues between Amarr and Minmatar NPCs, particularly in light of the above points about EWAR.