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Seeking assistance for possible Legal Action for the theft of my slaves.
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Gaufres
Just Keep Hanging On
#1 - 2012-05-10 03:02:41 UTC
As you all know, there was a raid on Matriculation Center #4 and a huge number of slaves were stolen by an unknown group of Holders. It has taken some time, but I have managed to determine how many of the missing slaves were mine. The Number is 9,247 slaves. I have the DNA records and papers for all of them. Since they were stolen in Amarr Territory and apparently still in Amarr Territory, I want to seek legal action against the thieves and any Holders who bought stolen goods.

This Person seems to know something as to their whereabouts.

From: Ta Pang
Sent: 2012.04.16 16:54
To: Gaufres,

Mr Gaufres,

I recently noticed your kind offer to purchase the relocated slaves form whomever currenlty has them. My sources tell me that they are all currently being put to good use and they are on their way down the path to eventually be Reclaimed.

Further inqueries will be ignored.

Ta Pang
--------------------------------
Lucius Vindictus
Arachnos
#2 - 2012-05-10 11:50:47 UTC
Legal action? Among capsuleers?

The only recourse you have is called a War Declaration.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#3 - 2012-05-10 13:07:43 UTC
I am not sure the OP stated that the thieves were actually capsuleers ?
Lucius Vindictus
Arachnos
#4 - 2012-05-10 13:13:43 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
I am not sure the OP stated that the thieves were actually capsuleers ?


The correspondence mister Gaufres refers to originates from a mister Ta Pang, who is listed in the CONCORD database as a capsuleer.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#5 - 2012-05-10 14:43:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
You help the Stonites, right Gaufres?

Do they know that you claim the slaves that you "rescue" as your property?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#6 - 2012-05-10 15:13:20 UTC
Lucius Vindictus wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
I am not sure the OP stated that the thieves were actually capsuleers ?


The correspondence mister Gaufres refers to originates from a mister Ta Pang, who is listed in the CONCORD database as a capsuleer.



This Person seems to know something as to their whereabouts. does not evidently mean that capsuleer is a thief himself ?
Lucius Vindictus
Arachnos
#7 - 2012-05-10 16:54:34 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
This Person seems to know something as to their whereabouts. does not evidently mean that capsuleer is a thief himself ?


When a capsuleer states that his goods are stolen, and another capsuleer contacts him knowing about the whereabouts of said goods, then.. yes... I think it more than likely that the thief is a capsuleer and not something else.

It could also have been an elaborate plot involving Jovians, but that was my second guess.
Naira Shandr
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-05-10 16:56:25 UTC
Forgive my ignorance but who are the Stonites? And perhaps these people are correct Gaufres. Even if these thieves aren't directly affiliated with a capsuleer or corporation run by one, your best bet may be to apply force, quickly and quietly. Though now i suppose your intentions are known, and as I said I am ignorant of much of this situation. But I imagine your course of legal action would be slow and ineffective.
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-05-10 17:20:53 UTC
Please pardon my ignorance on the particular facts, but what authority issued the titles to the slaves? It may be that a claim to that title is only enforceable within that nation-state's boundaries. Once outside those boundaries, the slaves may be legally considered human entities (albeit, non-citizens of that particular nation-state). In which case they would not be considered chattels or property which may be stolen.
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
#10 - 2012-05-10 18:30:12 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
You help the Stonites, right Gaufres?

Do they know that you claim the slaves that you "rescue" as your property?


Indeed, I find this rather confusing.

How did your property come to be at the Matriculation Centre to begin with? If they were stolen from you, then I suggest you target the Stonites themselves. If you released them willingly, then what claim do you still have if they are no longer your property?

Moreover, considering this is actually a fairly paltry sum you have lost, I take it this is more a matter of principle for you?

A Gallente demanding financial compensation for the loss of slave property as a matter of principle, how wonderfully ironic.
Gaufres
Just Keep Hanging On
#11 - 2012-05-10 20:49:53 UTC
I knew this would cause some concern, but until the slaves were safely away, by Amarrian Law, they were still mine. Some, as yet unknown, group of Holders appear to have staged a raid and stolen them. "If", they are still in Amarr territory, they still belong to me and are stolen property. What I entend to do with them has no bearing on the theft.
Boma Airaken
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-05-10 21:08:28 UTC
Not this **** again.....
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-05-10 21:22:15 UTC
Boma Airaken wrote:
Not this **** again.....


Indeed. Odd that this comes up at the same time as the weekly Cresthill / Ston thread regurgitation. The timing is just so coincidental.


Sabik now, Sabik forever
Lucius Vindictus
Arachnos
#14 - 2012-05-11 01:10:57 UTC
Gaufres wrote:
I knew this would cause some concern, but until the slaves were safely away, by Amarrian Law, they were still mine. Some, as yet unknown, group of Holders appear to have staged a raid and stolen them. "If", they are still in Amarr territory, they still belong to me and are stolen property. What I entend to do with them has no bearing on the theft.


Why should we trust you? I remember that in the past you have claimed to be against slavery. Those claims were not consistent with your long service to Imperial agencies nor your very public dealings in the slave trade. But still... what are we to make of you?

Technically the slaves were already stolen property to begin with. Now the thieves have been thieved from, it would seem. Why should anyone intervene on your behalf?
Gaufres
Just Keep Hanging On
#15 - 2012-05-11 03:31:27 UTC
The Slaves I rescued from death in space were abandoned, therefore their previous owners had no further claim to them. My work in freeing slaves speaks for itself, and if I can get some of the abducted/stolen slaves back with the help of the Amarr Legal System, then so be it.

My Service to the Amarr and its Allies is well rewarded. The Gallente speak a lot on the subject of being anti-slavery and do nothing. At least I made myself useful to the Amarr and have the Excellent standing to prove it. I wonder how many of you would risk exile from home to do what was right?
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2012-05-11 10:24:33 UTC
Gaufres wrote:
The Slaves I rescued from death in space were abandoned, therefore their previous owners had no further claim to them. My work in freeing slaves speaks for itself, and if I can get some of the abducted/stolen slaves back with the help of the Amarr Legal System, then so be it.

My Service to the Amarr and its Allies is well rewarded. The Gallente speak a lot on the subject of being anti-slavery and do nothing. At least I made myself useful to the Amarr and have the Excellent standing to prove it. I wonder how many of you would risk exile from home to do what was right?


We only have your word that the slaves were willingly abandoned by their rightful owners.

It seems to me that maybe those rightful owners decided to reclaim their property.


Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#17 - 2012-05-11 10:26:30 UTC
Naira Shandr wrote:
Forgive my ignorance but who are the Stonites?


Some misguided fools of no consequence.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Ta Pang
Character Warehouse
#18 - 2012-05-11 15:27:57 UTC
Lucius Vindictus wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
This Person seems to know something as to their whereabouts. does not evidently mean that capsuleer is a thief himself ?


When a capsuleer states that his goods are stolen, and another capsuleer contacts him knowing about the whereabouts of said goods, then.. yes... I think it more than likely that the thief is a capsuleer and not something else.

It could also have been an elaborate plot involving Jovians, but that was my second guess.



Beleive what you will. As my message to the OP indicated I simply have solid sources of information. Yet again, I have tried offering assistance this time through information, and once more I find myself the target of a slanderous campaign.

I echo Mr Blakes concern that you are so publically declaring these rescued slaves are to be considered your property. I can think of several Holders who would dispute your claim, and I am sure your fellow Stonites do not share your point of view either.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#19 - 2012-05-11 15:47:12 UTC
Rawr rawr rawr, give me back my stolen rehabilitated after being stolen from Slavers slaves who used to be enslaved from their homes but now they are my property because i rescued them blah blah blah rawr rawr rawr.

You people are ridiculous.

Katrina Oniseki
Ta Pang
Character Warehouse
#20 - 2012-05-22 13:32:23 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Rawr rawr rawr, give me back my stolen rehabilitated after being stolen from Slavers slaves who used to be enslaved from their homes but now they are my property because i rescued them blah blah blah rawr rawr rawr.

You people are ridiculous.



Agreed. This is a completely absurd waste of time. Good luck marching into the Amarr Empire and demanding the return of slaves which were not yours to begin with, in fact while I am no lawyer (thank God!) I am fairly certain that it is YOU Gaufres who would be considerd the thief.

I somehow doubt you have a full and accurate records of exactly how those slaves, which are no doubt genetically registered with various Imperial agencies, came into your possession. Yes, yes you tell a grand story about finding them abandonned.....but can you prove that the pilots who jetisoned them weren't simply working for you to steal the rightful property of loyal Amarr citizens?

As for my small part in this drama, suffice it to say I have been well compensated and look forward to working for who so ever wishes to employ my speciffic set of skills in the future.