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Target switching rats in a 10/10?
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Zofe Stormcaller
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-05-10 12:42:03 UTC
Greetings,

While running a 10/10 last night (Centus T.P. Inc), in the final room, after our tanking Tengu had pulled aggro before the DPS ships warped in, the aggro then switched mostly to an armor tanking Oracle. Fortunately I was able to cycle reps onto the Oracle in time and was fit with 4 large meta 4 reps/t2 bots so was just about able to keep the Oracle alive but it was a case of his shield going full-empty-full-empty until we reduced the rat DPS to manageable levels.

None of us had seen the rats switch aggro before in this type of complex. Is this a new thing and is working as intended or was there some kind of glitch?

On another note, when we warped in there was noone running the complex but it had been partially completed by someone who found it before us but bugged out after the first two rooms. For some reason however the complex did not despawn despite the complex having been left long enough for the wrecks to pop. Either way
TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-05-10 13:38:14 UTC
Working as intended. You cannot expect to warp in 1 tank ship and the entire site never switch to a lesser tanked ship do you?

I run these with just 1 DPS which is a Tengu and a Scimitar. The Scimi never gets touched as its going 2000 M/S and the Tengu receives about 3k DPS Tank. The scimi assignes drones to me and we have a field day. Youd be surprised....its not slow at all!

The Plex won't despawn until the overseer has been taken down. Many times I have gone to the last room with the rest all finished.
Moroccan Tourist
Blood Raider Cleaning Crew
#3 - 2012-05-10 14:30:03 UTC
It happens sometime when you shot stuff before the main ship agroed everything .
Zofe Stormcaller
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-05-10 14:46:46 UTC
TriadSte wrote:
Working as intended. You cannot expect to warp in 1 tank ship and the entire site never switch to a lesser tanked ship do you?



We've never had an issue with it in the past, from both the Sansha version of this complex we were running or other pirate variants. The Sansha version webs a nano ship to a near standstill, then hits that ship with a capital sized torpedo. As the ship cannot move and travel faster than the relatively low explosion velocity of the torp they take a hit with a very high alpha just after warping in. That complex type had already instapopped some tech 2 fitted tengu pilots when we first moved to Sansha rat space. We only used a tengu this time as we had no available broadsword pilots which is the preferable tank ship for EM/Therm complexes, and the tengu pilot in question was both a veteran eve player and running a deadspace fit capable of tanking the high alpha, despite the inability to move more than a few m/s.

Since your scimitar is using a MWD trying to use one while webbed to that degree will only make your sig radius massive while only making you go 10m/s faster. I wouldn't advise that.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#5 - 2012-05-10 15:35:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tomcio FromFarAway
1. So what you are saying is that they switched aggro like sleeper drones?
2. Are you SURE that the tank got FULL aggro ( sometime it is easy to omit some rats if the room is full of them and not every rat will agro instantly )?
3. Which rats switched aggro ?
4. Were there towers in there?
5. Were there additional spawns in there?

TriadSte wrote:
Working as intended. You cannot expect to warp in 1 tank ship and the entire site never switch to a lesser tanked ship do you?

That's actually what you would expect because that is how the k-space rats work( and worked for years ) - only towers can switch targets. Unless CCP are changing something as we speak ofc.
Zofe Stormcaller
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-05-10 16:06:31 UTC
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
1. So what you are saying is that they switched aggro like sleeper drones?
2. Are you SURE that the tank got FULL aggro ( sometime it is easy to omit some rats if the room is full of them and not every rat will agro instantly )?
3. Which rats switched aggro ?
4. Were there towers in there?
5. Were there additional spawns in there?

TriadSte wrote:
Working as intended. You cannot expect to warp in 1 tank ship and the entire site never switch to a lesser tanked ship do you?

That's actually what you would expect because that is how the k-space rats work( and worked for years ) - only towers can switch targets. Unless CCP are changing something as we speak ofc.


The tank's was nearly put into armor upon warp in from the station's web/torp combo despite the shiny fit and I definately remember things shooting at him before the remaining ships warped in. I will check with him to make sure he had full aggro when I get in from work. As per official NBOLT communications protocol I will also insult him upon teamspeak connecting.

Upon warp in, the Oracle picked up most of the BS and cruisers, The Abaddon picked up 2 BS and a cruiser, The Scimi picked up 2 cruisers, 1 BS and a web tower. The Abaddon could tank it, I was buffering what I had until could take the cruisers out. Since we went from the tengu in armor to the tengu needing no remote reps or shield bots so that suggests a target switch. I don't know what the station was shooting at as the tengu no longer needed the rep, and I can't see how a paper thin oracle could take that kind of alpha damage.
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-05-10 16:13:31 UTC
TriadSte wrote:
Working as intended. You cannot expect to warp in 1 tank ship and the entire site never switch to a lesser tanked ship do you?


actually, no, it's not...IF he had full aggro on the rooms. i can't think of any plexes that both don't have multiple spawns and switch aggro. we've been tanking plexes with a single drake and DPSing with two sub-10k EHP oracles for months and have never seen aggro switch in null. the ONLY ones that switch aggro is one or two overseers that use advanced AI tactics, like the Big Boss and the escalation chain out of Provincial HQs. the rest don't ever switch. these aren't wormholes =)

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https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#8 - 2012-05-10 16:14:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tomcio FromFarAway
You know the problem could be that the first ship just didn't get full aggro( that is what probably happened here ). Rats in some sites will instantly agro first ship that enters ( like serp/guri DED5 for instance ) but in other sites there are different groups of ships that will not agro you at the beginning. Sometimes they will only aggro if you start shooting at them or get too close.

One exception are towers. Some towers can in fact switch targets if their original target gets out of range( they cannot init pursuit) and another target enters their targeting range.
TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-05-10 16:59:15 UTC
Zofe Stormcaller wrote:
Since your scimitar is using a MWD trying to use one while webbed to that degree will only make your sig radius massive while only making you go 10m/s faster. I wouldn't advise that.


The Scimi is always out of web range, he's orbiting at 65km at 2000 ish M/S

I also used to use a Gist X type booster/amp combo [with crystal set] and yes indeed this survives alpha no worries in the Centus 10/10 but It's the 8/10 Sansha that makes even that setup crawl to its knees due to the stations webbing. From then I thought the Scimi was the better option.

I have had target switches recently in a 6, 8 and 10/10. I have not seen any switching of targets from the 7/10 though.
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-05-10 18:02:14 UTC
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
You know the problem could be that the first ship just didn't get full aggro( that is what probably happened here ). Rats in some sites will instantly agro first ship that enters ( like serp/guri DED5 for instance ) but in other sites there are different groups of ships that will not agro you at the beginning. Sometimes they will only aggro if you start shooting at them or get too close.

One exception are towers. Some towers can in fact switch targets if their original target gets out of range( they cannot init pursuit) and another target enters their targeting range.


likely this is what happened - they just didn't have full aggro.

towers do switch occasionally, but they barely do any damage or cause any issue so i doubt that's what the OP was talking about.

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2012-05-10 18:58:42 UTC
Wingmate wrote:

likely this is what happened - they just didn't have full aggro.