EVE General Discussion

But sincerely, I do believe the "blockade" of Low sec to Null sec needs to go,

Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with gate campers blocking the entrance, but getting ganked right away when you try to enter a system... Well, that's bloody annoying.
Plus, in absentium of any possible fair fight possibility as I try to enter nullsec, I'm afraid that I as a newbie certainly can't do jack in there.

I mean, seriously, can't even enter a system on the ass-end of nowhere without getting tackled as I enter the damn place. This just tells me I'll have to wait til I can actually get a cloak in a decent fit before I ever try to head back out there.

But more seriously, we need a waaaay larger spread on the entry point in a system. Something à la Mass Effect lore spread. I don't know but a 100 km randomised spread would be perfect according to me. Otherwise, hell, I might have lost 3 ships and a capsule in the last 2 days, but damn, I still like PVP, but atm, it's simply impractible for me to get into null to get my fix as I have found out.


Somehow, and I might get flagged as a carebear because of that or whatever the hell you want, but I think that someone actually needs to be able to get in null sec to actually be able to enjoy it. And yea, before you ask that, hey, I'm a poor student and I can't afford a computer that can multitab the game to have a scout going ahead for me and I seriously don't believe a game should "force" you that way to use alts.


I guess I'll simply have to keep on trying to get into roaming gangs in low sec to get any and have to grind back up that damn sec status... Eh...



TL:DR : Pushing up the spread upon entering system would probably make it easier for noobs to actually get inside Nullsec and... you know... Enjoy the same experience as you guys. (I actually don't mind gate camping for the exiting traffic, but maaaaannnn? Incoming traffic?)

Like others have posted you gotta attack this problem on both ends:

1) People come into this game feeling that PvP is evil or wrong. But PvP is the driving force of this game and high sec is really just the starter zone. Tutorials need to emphasize this.

2) High sec income. For the last few years I earn all of my isk via highsec while I base in low/null. Missioning, incursions, PI. Missioning especially gives out too much isk/rewards.

I've had more fun in low/null than I ever do in high sec and would love to see low/null more populated. I favor the carrot method to get people out there and I always tell noobs how to survive in low/null and they almost always like it.

But sincerely, again, no, you're absolutely and unequivocally wrong. If your problem with leaving hisec is that you can't physically enter the space by yourself to go do....who knows what, then you've already lost. Not mentioning that it is actually farcically easy to navigate low and even null by yourself with the proper ships, when you actually have a reason to.

"I can't do this by myself without any thought to preparing or organizing. Therefore something is wrong with it, not me". No, something is wrong with you.

The fact that this false mentality is so widespread just shows how busted the transitioning is in this game. The fact that so many people get to a point where this is their "low/null experience" is just so unbelievably dysfunctional from a game design pov..

First I must say that (and admit it) but some of the answers from the Goons are pretty good and we must, even if we hate them (because the rules require that we hate them and they like it) also observe that they take care of their own very well.

The quote above is also observed. People are playing a game, and they know they are playing a game. But a certain loss is not a way a game is played. Nobody plays poker to lose, for example.

The idea I like to push in these threads is that ships should have the ability (mechanics, rules, etc aside) to dial in a warp to other systems either adjacent or further, depending on various cost-consequence factors. Pretty much they way they do it in Star Wars and Star Trek, for example. I think the giving ships, or players the ability to equip them, a jump capability will allow people to fight over, tresspass, and other such fun stuff, into all those deserted 0.0 pockets. Think about it: the gate camp replaced by the combat patrol. The warp bubble replaced by the combat probe. Small groups, medium fleets, combat patrols, search and destroy missions, long range recon - it's all potentially better than gate camps and "blob and get blobbed". I think even those who camp gates all day could agree. Sitting on a gate appears are boring as mining.

Didn't say I didn't wanna go back in there though. just .... waiting til I'll have a better way to get in there

try living in Providence or something before you start bombing across Syndicate again man
CVA doesn't kill neuts on sight, for one.

The thing that would accomplish this is to actually limit the resources. Seriously: roid belts being mined out of existence, and agents running out of work and a mission hub becomes too filled up.

Look at it this way: most conflict comes from scarcity. EvE is intended to be a game of conflict, but there is a flaw: no scarcity. Resources are created out of nothing (the reboot). If there was scarcity, people will fight over the resources. People always fight over limited resources, since the day one caveman took a femur to the head of another who was drinking too much water from the only spring. You can't have a PVP game intended for conflict when the resources cannot run out.

From the perspective of poker, if I take money I can afford to lose to a poker game, and lose, eventually I'm out.

I know where you are going with this, and I can understand, because I hardly make ISK, care not much for it, and lost a lot of ships, but have had a great time at it.

So if you consider that the "ISK snatcher" playstyle is what I defend, reconsider. The ISK snatcher, the player whose wallet and the number displayed in it is the one and only thing they care for, is not who we should bother with. That sort is never going to change. Think of incursions. When incursions became the big ISK faucet, suddenly that crowd is blitzing VGs and farming sites letting the MOM sit for a week. When we were taking out Sansha Motherships, you should have seen the hatred from these people. It's not really a game they are playing, but something else spawned from their mindset. If station spinning generated ISK, they would spin in stations or train a hamster to run on a track ball mouse.

To call it a high sec attitude is wrong. The term used for "going to low" is "feeding ships to the sharks" and it does not really make for entertaining games when that's all you end up doing. When the game to other players is to sit on a spot all day and kill everything that moves, who wants to help them?

By using worm holes to get past the gank pipelines, I have been to many points in 0.0 space doing exploration and have had a great time at it and a hanger full of stuff that would make me rich if I cared to sell it (too lazy) . You need patience to do that, and most people lack that, but at the same time. the 0.0 crowd laments the lack of targets and activity, cursing high sec on the way.


What I offer is a solution to speed things up a bit. Frankly the "get an alt" tip looks like a scam to most people. Any game where you need to pay for an extra sub just to survive looks a bit scammish and a lot of people won't do that simply because it feels like a setup.

Joining alliances in null is also another tip but how often do we see people in high sec write on these forums how they have already been to 0.0? I see this a lot. Frankly the way things are run, the going to null thing is not a good experience for a lot of people. Perhaps the Goons have a good time at it, but what I read most of the time is negative. If it's not politics, it's being a renter, and then there is the cannon fodder aspect, how you are expected to lose ships, but there is no dividend to that nor ship replacement - making people wonder where the alliance leaders are putting all that ISK. So you have to mission it up to pay for your own ships, and then lose them to someone else's tactics. That can be irritating. Who logs in for that?

I base out of high sec, and go into null. It would be a far more active game if people could do that, but I must be honest that my "dialed in warp" suggestion is also a trap. I use it to shut people up, because it IS the solution that will create more PVP and targets and allow the leet nullsecers to prove their worth, but when it meets resistance, it proves that those who lament the lack of people "out there" really just want more renters, cannon fodder, or easy ganks. It's the gate campers who make the loudest complaints. And honestly if people are going to kill everything that moves, there will be less things moving. This kind of disconnect from consequence we should only expect from miners who don't tank hulks and then wonder why they got suicided by a thrasher.

I'm not going to say you're wrong, but i really do believe in a baseline income for hyper-casual and beginner players, a spaceship social safety net if you will.

I'd rather see augmented payouts for people that begin to engage in the cooperative and competitive behavior they'll need to survive outside of hisec. Beyond the payout issue, incursions are actually a great feature for hisec. All it needs is something that's even better than incursion payouts, but requires you to "lay claims" as an organization, which opens you up to competition (pvp). From there the transition for a new pilot to a revitalized lowsec, better nullsec, or seemingly "just fine right now" whs is perfectly natural.

Again, I have endless sympathy for people who finish getting the hang of the game from level 4s, then are basically left standing there with their **** in their hands. We lose far too many people that would be contributing members of this exciting universe had they only been presented with a better learning curve. Hell, I wouldn't even care if hisec became vastly more populated as long as players were cooperating and competing, which is what creates and maintains the sense of excitement for EVERYONE in the game. Otherwise it's just ****** space pixels with terrible content.

Re: "gate camps are the problem!!11one"

You start in highsec. If you read, and do what you're supposed to, then you start doing missions in highsec. When you run out, you ask on Rookie Help where you can find new missions, and they tell you how to find more. Highsec missions work like this: frig/destroyer for L1s -> cruiser for L2s -> battlecruiser for L3s -> battleship for L4s. When you grow up, which is to say, when you can do L4s in a battleship, maybe you can move on to incursions in battleships, or wormholes in battleships.

At some point during this natural progression from small ships (which are terrible) to large ships (which are much better), maybe you'll get the idea to take a peek into 'pvp space'. You're in a larger and therefore better ship now, you slay rats without any trouble whatsoever in your propless dual-tanked mixed-guns fit, so surely you're 'ready'.

The most that you know about the mechanics of the game - the very most, everything you could write in a book about it - are that you shouldn't loot yellow containers, and that CONCORD will kill you if you attack people who aren't red in highsec.

So you enter lowsec lke this in a cruiser / BC / BS.

And you die immediately.

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There are four problematic paragraphs above; "And you die immediately." isn't one of them.

Right now, the Advanced Warfare career agent tells people that webs, scrams, and FCs exist, and then it gives you a Letter of Recommendation (for FW) that Rookie Help will you tell you trash immediately, for your own good. As encouragements to leaving highsec go, the LoR is probably worse than having that NPC invite you work for pirates in nullsec. As lessons on EVE mechanics go, the "don't loot yellow containers" lesson that you get from Rookie Help (or in Arnon system) is better than all the text in the NPE put together.

CCP could add a new career agent mission that teaches gate mechanics, the dscan, jump cloak, agility, blah, and which requires players to move about in lowsec in a frig. Survival skills, so that they can at least choose their fights to a degree. Or they could add new 'L1' epic arcs that ape the pirate arcs.