EVE General Discussion

Which is to say that it is worthless until you actually do something with it.

My accounts gain skillpoints, increasing the price they fetch when traded, 24 hours a day and 7 days a week, as long as I make sure their queues are filled up, maybe once a week. Is that passive income? Maybe CCP should change it so you only gain SP while logged in?

You mean researching with guns, surely.

Because you need to actively feed it with water and electrolytes for any coolant to appear.
It's much like how you have to actively press F1 every now and then to turn a Pith Conquistador into a Large Generic Wreck.

Then it would be like any other kind of S&I, so yes.

Not seeing it myself. Trying to define passive income by implying that you don't need to interact at any level?

Even if I entertain Tippia and reply to the very abstract implications, it doesn't change the way the game plays out. As people have pointed out, you can't just let RP pile up for 3 years and log in and sell them. There is a logistical process to converting them to ISK. That logistical process involves interaction and yet it is viewed as passive income and a negative in EVE. The same holds true in the entire research and production of everything in EVE. There is a minimal interaction required to make it work.

Passive income doesn't hurt EVE. Automated income does. You can't bot the RP systems, it has time stamps on it. You can bot mining, you can bot PvE.

Passive Income isn't hurting the economy of EVE. The slow and steady export to a loot based economy is. When T2 was introduced it was the optimal fit. Now T2 fits are bottom of the barrel, nobody even considers a Meta 4 fit anymore. Faction and faction or blue fit is the new premium and it has cut the entire T2 production line out of the process. When you see a new mirror come up on test server the first thing everyone does is school all the officer fittings. Buy up all the faction mods and ammo. T2 is second rate. EVE is becoming WoW. Where your best gear is looted, not made by other people.

Underlined the important part.

The cycle times of weapons on spaceships are far shorter, you can't simply wander off for a day after you press F1 (unless you are flying a laser boat and are solo-reinforcing a POS or other structure). When the activity will complete successfully with no player input while the player is logged out, it is surely a passive value generation.

Your combat ship might successfully turn that one Conquistador into a wreck while you are logged off, but you have to be logged in to pick the next target. I suspect there is more interaction required to log in between explosions to pick the next target, and you need the alt logged in to keep you warp scrambled so you don't emergency warp out. So in the end, to prove a point about passive value generation you are actually mre actively engaged with the game than usual.

Apparently there is a mismatch between our definitions of passive value generation: mine is any system which generates value while the player is logged out. Yours appears to be any system that does not have a defined end time.

Note that PI extraction does not have a defined end time. You can vary the cycle time from a few minutes to over a week.

PI processing does not have a defined end time either: you load up as much stuff as will fit in the storage available, the processing takes from 7 hours to over a week depending on your ratio of processors to storage.

The loading and unloading is irrelevant, since you do both in the same step of the cycle (well, you do unless you are fiscally illiterate).

So to my view it boils down to one definition of passive value generation being "it happens when I am logged off" versus "it never stops." I would suggest that the second is perpetual generation, rather than passive. Framed in this way, RP production is a perpetual process: it will keep running without player interaction. Once it has been defined this way, it is easy to see how a passive value generation activity like PI processing and an active activity such as shooting things are different to the activity of farming datacores. It is also easy to see the appropriate correction: in real life, projects have defined scope, so do the same with research projects run by agents.

Will you accept the distinction between "passive" and "active" versus "perpetual" and "temporary"?

9 years of history have proven the last part of this to not be the case.

Something CCP have failed at in EVE from day one is to input labor in to the value of something. Players do it, you see it in the cost of blue loots. There is a reason I won't go to null sec to farm them. It's less time consuming to just go to Jita and pay whatever price is there for stuff I want. EVE is very much tied to real life in one respect. it eats time and no matter how rich I am, I can't buy time.

AFK Dominix. Passive income. Nerf required.

PI. Passive accumulation of wealth between cycles. Nerf required.

No, mine is one where you don't have to do anything to keep the accumulating that value. The accumulation happens without any kind of input — all you have to do is come and cash it in at any time you like.

Even if it only happened while you were online, it could still be just as passive. RP is nice in that it doesn't even do that, so when you cash in, you can do so safe in the knowledge that even though you accidentally forgot to do it last week it won't make the slightest bit of difference.

Tippia, I believe I requested that you figure out the population split between NPC Null, which receives things like the Drone Nerf, and PC Alliance Null, which receives things like Moon Goo, several days ago.

Did you forget? You like calculating numbers so much I felt sure you would have it done by now.

Chop chop.