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Jump Drives, breaking Eve for years
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Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2012-05-09 22:58:38 UTC
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
If we must have gates, they should be points of debarkation into another system. As someone else all ready stated, when you do jump into the new system it is in a random location. That would help put at end to gate camping and allow more people to move from high sec into null sec - and according to the people playing in those areas that is what they want - more people in null and low. As the game is set up now that is not going to happen with the current mechanics of how gates work.


Nobody cares about players making solo incursions into lowsec or nullsec.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#202 - 2012-05-09 23:02:54 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
If we must have gates, they should be points of debarkation into another system. As someone else all ready stated, when you do jump into the new system it is in a random location. That would help put at end to gate camping and allow more people to move from high sec into null sec - and according to the people playing in those areas that is what they want - more people in null and low. As the game is set up now that is not going to happen with the current mechanics of how gates work.

Nobody cares about players making solo incursions into lowsec or nullsec.

We don't really need whiny carebears wandering about. Please be aware of how to say alive before randomly jumping your carrier somewhere.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#203 - 2012-05-09 23:04:18 UTC
You forgot about jump clones also making instant travel across the galaxy possible. Personally I think you should only be able to use them in the same station as you are without any delays which would allow fast clone switching for the different implants you have.

Would also have the impact in making sov entities compete and interact with their neighbours more instead of shifting around the galaxy at a moments notice fighting for some far off tech moon 10,000 jumps away as soon as the pos timer comes out.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#204 - 2012-05-09 23:13:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Terranid Meester wrote:
You forgot about jump clones also making instant travel across the galaxy possible. Personally I think you should only be able to use them in the same station as you are without any delays which would allow fast clone switching for the different implants you have.

Would also have the impact in making sov entities compete and interact with their neighbours more instead of shifting around the galaxy at a moments notice fighting for some far off tech moon 10,000 jumps away as soon as the pos timer comes out.

Don't you mean titan and jump bridges?

People move from their staging to where ever via those, usually we wouldn't have jump clones at every possibly attack vector.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Saia Tae Arragosa
Doomheim
#205 - 2012-05-09 23:19:35 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
If we must have gates, they should be points of debarkation into another system. As someone else all ready stated, when you do jump into the new system it is in a random location. That would help put at end to gate camping and allow more people to move from high sec into null sec - and according to the people playing in those areas that is what they want - more people in null and low. As the game is set up now that is not going to happen with the current mechanics of how gates work.


Nobody cares about players making solo incursions into lowsec or nullsec.



No what you're saying is, you like to whine that more people are not in null and low sec. Suggestions are and ideals are being put forth to bring more people into those areas and all you do is whine more. Either you want more people in null and low sec or you don't. Which is it going to be?
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2012-05-09 23:20:51 UTC
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
Either you want more people in null and low sec or you don't. Which is it going to be?


False dichotomy.

Next.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#207 - 2012-05-09 23:27:13 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
Either you want more people in null and low sec or you don't. Which is it going to be?


False dichotomy.

Next.

Want more good players.

Oh wait, goons are bad at eve aren't they, crap...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Saia Tae Arragosa
Doomheim
#208 - 2012-05-09 23:30:21 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
Either you want more people in null and low sec or you don't. Which is it going to be?


False dichotomy.

Next.


Sorry, no it isn't. We are constantly haranged by null and low sec players about the lack of people migrating to those areas. So...either you are open to discuss suggestions on how to do that - or you continue to be non-inclusive. There is no grey area here. Either you are for more people moving into 0.0 and low sec space or you are just whining to be a part of the herd.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2012-05-09 23:34:56 UTC
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
So...either you are open to discuss suggestions on how to do that - or you continue to be non-inclusive. .


I am open to discuss suggestions on how to do that.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#210 - 2012-05-09 23:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
Aqriue wrote:
See, the problem isn't the blob and jump drives. There is none really, trust me.

The problem is you and the fact that you let your defense stagnate so your little Sov-Fortress of Solitude let a pest of a little cyno frig get passed you and then it brought in more vermin. That is your problem, your inability to defend your home from vermin. You are in fact the creator of your own demise, so perhaps instead of bitching how someone figured out how to use game mechanics to their advantage you need to figure out how to use the game mechanics to your advantage.

Want an amazing example of how to use game mechanics of how they existed and to win with them? Titan XL gun tracking, fitting mostly tracking mods, using tackle ships and lol-targeting lasers against the fact the other guy never brought titans. Amazing huh, adapting that mechanic of a massive ship that couldn't track on its own but using fleet tackle and then putting those massive amounts of titans in big large fleets. The other guy, had his chance to stop the titans from being built (that was their first mistake, not taking them out of action during construction), then they continued to use the time honored tradition of massive numbers of blob battleships, why the other guy cut down on the blob and just brought a force multiplier of titans that did the job just as well.

But as usual, the whiners couldn't cope of dealing with titan XL guns and would not admit that it was their fault for not adapting to the new fleet doctrine of EVE. Really, the best counter to a Titan XL gun is certainly not flying another battleship, but hopping into a cap ship. CCP had to dumb down titans for the whiners since they couldn't cope that their battleship tanks failed, but those whiners are the same dudes who say that hulk pilots need to cope with getting ganked by Titans destroyers by not flying battleships against Titans fitting tanks. (<-- me pointing out the fact that some people can't handle something but the same thing no longer applies to them when they tell hulk pilots how to handle the problem. Funny that)

Infact, aside from the obvious off topic rant that is somehow related the major problem of EVE is the ******* human infestation that can't handle the human element and how that human element uses game mechanics to their advantage but the other side whines when it is used against them that it is somehow broken, unfair, overpowered, and they just cannot ******* adapt. Yeah, nerf the players out of the equation then the entire problem will fix itself.


So much wonderful mad.

Pathetic Legion, best Legion is pathetic.

Post with your main, or better yet, just don't post.

Whinging little 3l33t-kid prat.

Ni.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#211 - 2012-05-10 00:15:25 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
If we must have gates, they should be points of debarkation into another system. As someone else all ready stated, when you do jump into the new system it is in a random location. That would help put at end to gate camping and allow more people to move from high sec into null sec - and according to the people playing in those areas that is what they want - more people in null and low. As the game is set up now that is not going to happen with the current mechanics of how gates work.

Nobody cares about players making solo incursions into lowsec or nullsec.

We don't really need whiny carebears wandering about. Please be aware of how to say alive before randomly jumping your carrier somewhere.



Don't you want more PVP?

After all, if someone is mining in high sec, and they are AFK, alt-tabbed, or Semi AFK, and therefore must die for being complacent, how is it OK then to have systems that are deserted and never see so much as a patrol?

What are gate campers doing sitting there all day like miners? Are they alt-tabbed? Semi-AFK? Should not they die for their sins against EvE Online?

Perhaps the "carebears" who take a plunge into a low sec system via dialed in warp would no longer be carebears, for having not died in a camp, and being told to go back to high sec or WoW, would have to be sought out, hunted out, and removed, during which time, given a "chance" to survive in a game, and taking those chances, would no longer be carebears.


And you would have less people to hate.

I almost feel sorry for you.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#212 - 2012-05-10 00:27:15 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I almost feel sorry for you.

Don't. I'm a goon, that might implicate you of being an alt of me.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#213 - 2012-05-10 00:30:34 UTC
Effort; the Kriptonite of null residents.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#214 - 2012-05-10 00:46:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie-A Tassik
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Terranid Meester wrote:
You forgot about jump clones also making instant travel across the galaxy possible. Personally I think you should only be able to use them in the same station as you are without any delays which would allow fast clone switching for the different implants you have.

Would also have the impact in making sov entities compete and interact with their neighbours more instead of shifting around the galaxy at a moments notice fighting for some far off tech moon 10,000 jumps away as soon as the pos timer comes out.

Don't you mean titan and jump bridges?

People move from their staging to where ever via those, usually we wouldn't have jump clones at every possibly attack vector.


But you do have normal clone bays and all you have to do is set your medical clone to where-ever you want to go and self-destruct your pod to get there.

This is also broken. You should only be able to set your medical clone to an in region medical bay. Of course it should stay there if you leave the region but this is far less broken.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#215 - 2012-05-10 00:48:18 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Don't you want more PVP?

After all, if someone is mining in high sec, and they are AFK, alt-tabbed, or Semi AFK, and therefore must die for being complacent, how is it OK then to have systems that are deserted and never see so much as a patrol?

What are gate campers doing sitting there all day like miners? Are they alt-tabbed? Semi-AFK? Should not they die for their sins against EvE Online?

No, gate campers are not AFK. Usually we have scouts out in surrounding systems hunting for targets, and if you wish us to die for our sins by all means have at it. We are in lawless space after all.

Actually I'm also quite well known for having a habit of scanning for rated complexes, mainly because an FC once noticed my alt jump into a system and begin scanning. Whilst we were in the middle of a fleet fight. but I am an incurable hoarder of space gold.

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Perhaps the "carebears" who take a plunge into a low sec system via dialed in warp would no longer be carebears, for having not died in a camp, and being told to go back to high sec or WoW, would have to be sought out, hunted out, and removed, during which time, given a "chance" to survive in a game, and taking those chances, would no longer be carebears.

Yes, they would still be care bears. And they would still be high sec care bears, because low sec would no longer be low sec.

If you have an issue that involves safe space being almost as valuable, expansive and endless in resources as unsafe space, then the solution is not to make the unsafe space more like the safe space. The solution is to make safe space less valuable, less vast and begin to limit resources.

Preferably by limiting resources to genuine newbies.

All you are proposing is to lower the learning curve for Eve, because some players can't be bothered to put any effort in. The issue being that Eve is a niche game, it survives due to a hardcore fanbase that are extremely loyal, and are extremely loyal due to it's reputation as a difficult and challenging game. The idea of overtly lowering the skill cap for Eve is financial suicide for CCP.

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
And you would have less people to hate.

I almost feel sorry for you.

You realize this is a game right?

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Andrey Wartooth
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#216 - 2012-05-10 00:51:46 UTC
Kriegman wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
Okay, using a secret jump planning tool, I've measured out how many jumps it would take to get from the northernmost system, 3KNA-N in Branch, to the southernmost system, LX5K-W in Paragon Soul, using a Jump Drive Calibration 5 Carrier, which has the longest jump range of any jump capable ship.

It is 7 jumps.

Now, if we were to use a different ship, like a Titan, it is 17 jumps. That is the maximum. Both of these however, require a metric fuckton of fuel, will require cynos placed in potentially hostile systems, and everything.

So it would be a total of 17 cynos from one side of the other for a Jump Portaled subcap fleet, requiring more fuel than cargo space on all the ships involved.

Edit: Here is the route involved:
Titan - 5/4 Route: 3KNA-N -> BWI1-9 -> JTAU-5 -> Y-4CFK -> QPO-WI -> XD-TOV -> Passari -> Tunudan -> Decon -> Tararan -> Y9-MDG -> 2-TEGJ -> G-ME2K -> O5Y3-W -> ZG8Q-N -> C9N-CC -> 5AQ-5H -> LX5K-W
17 Jumps, Fuel: 70510 Round Trip: 141020


Using goon GARPA I see. That's a secret spy tool and your midpoint "cynos belogs to us" now. Twisted You are welcome...


The trap has been sprung.

Heh, see what I did there?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#217 - 2012-05-10 00:59:32 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Don't you want more PVP?

After all, if someone is mining in high sec, and they are AFK, alt-tabbed, or Semi AFK, and therefore must die for being complacent, how is it OK then to have systems that are deserted and never see so much as a patrol?

What are gate campers doing sitting there all day like miners? Are they alt-tabbed? Semi-AFK? Should not they die for their sins against EvE Online?

No, gate campers are not AFK. Usually we have scouts out in surrounding systems hunting for targets, and if you wish us to die for our sins by all means have at it. We are in lawless space after all.

Actually I'm also quite well known for having a habit of scanning for rated complexes, mainly because an FC once noticed my alt jump into a system and begin scanning. Whilst we were in the middle of a fleet fight. but I am an incurable hoarder of space gold.

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Perhaps the "carebears" who take a plunge into a low sec system via dialed in warp would no longer be carebears, for having not died in a camp, and being told to go back to high sec or WoW, would have to be sought out, hunted out, and removed, during which time, given a "chance" to survive in a game, and taking those chances, would no longer be carebears.

Yes, they would still be care bears. And they would still be high sec care bears, because low sec would no longer be low sec.

If you have an issue that involves safe space being almost as valuable, expansive and endless in resources as unsafe space, then the solution is not to make the unsafe space more like the safe space. The solution is to make safe space less valuable, less vast and begin to limit resources.

Preferably by limiting resources to genuine newbies.

All you are proposing is to lower the learning curve for Eve, because some players can't be bothered to put any effort in. The issue being that Eve is a niche game, it survives due to a hardcore fanbase that are extremely loyal, and are extremely loyal due to it's reputation as a difficult and challenging game. The idea of overtly lowering the skill cap for Eve is financial suicide for CCP.

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
And you would have less people to hate.

I almost feel sorry for you.

You realize this is a game right?



Do you realize you just posted the standard list of platitudes of lowsec carebears? It looks like you just averaged out the wording of a random collection of nullsec lamentations and pasted it in. Are you actually reading the thread?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#218 - 2012-05-10 01:06:40 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Do you realize you just posted the standard list of platitudes of lowsec carebears? It looks like you just averaged out the wording of a random collection of nullsec lamentations and pasted it in. Are you actually reading the thread?


lol you got internetspaceshipsforumpoaned

Them: We want more people to want to do A

You: Then change A to B, and more people will do B

Me: WOLOLOLOLOL YER ******* STOOPID
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#219 - 2012-05-10 01:20:48 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Do you realize you just posted the standard list of platitudes of lowsec carebears? It looks like you just averaged out the wording of a random collection of nullsec lamentations and pasted it in. Are you actually reading the thread?

Can't dismiss my arguments with logic or reasoning? Quick, post a reply that doesn't actually amount to anything!

Cool story bro.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#220 - 2012-05-10 01:42:03 UTC
Rhealee wrote:
If were talking speed nerf then by all logic you should nerf the **** out of wh travel too. I mean come on its not fair for a carrier to skip 20 gates, how could it be fair for a freighter to go from highsec to 40 jumps deep into 0.0 in 1 or 2 wh jumps.

I fail to see any logic or any form of proof on how jump drives break the game. Sounds to me like original poster is just pissin and moaning about something trivial. The jump drive mechanism is fine. Fix the gate travel before the jump drives.



Because every single wormhole can take a freighter, you always know exactly where and when the wormhole will open, and exactly where it will take you, and exactly how much of its life-cycle is left.

For ****'s sakes...Roll

Fallacy of false-equivalence is such a perfectly beautiful thing.Ugh

Ni.