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New dev blog: Factional Warfare overhaul

First post First post
Author
Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#121 - 2012-05-09 20:12:12 UTC
I keep looking over the change. It gets better every time I read it. As a pirate, you get a free-for-all on WTs in lowsec so the gate gun problem is solved, you can still ransom and dishonor ransoms to mission runners (of which there will probably be a lot more), plus you get bumper ISK and LP on your kills! How awesome is that? Why wouldn't every pirate want to join FW now, is my question? Inferno gets better with every dev blog. Big smile I just wonder if my standing with the gallente is too low to join now. Maybe it won't matter depending on how the tags for sec thing works. Looking forward to it. Didn't anticipate wanting to join FW at all until today!

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Cosmoes
Peraka
#122 - 2012-05-09 20:13:15 UTC
For current rp holders when you change the datacore cost to 100 for all are you going to increase/decrease current rp holders current rp?

Are ppl with 150 datacore research items going to get an extra 50% more datacores while those with 50 cost ones get their datacores halved?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#123 - 2012-05-09 20:14:09 UTC
Thanks for finally working on faction war. Allot of these things have been needed for a long time. And allot of the work -including the faction war info page - is top quality.

In the end I think

1)the long time it takes to flip systems combined with

2)the no docking rule and

3)increased pve opportunities for the winning side

Will make faction war in general and the combat in particular much more similar to sov null sec.

I predict (yeah I might be wrong) the combat will be much more dependant on organizing large numbers of people together to grind through systems. We can see lots of eve players are quite happy about this and it's no surprise, as that is how many aspects of eve are "won". If they didn't like then many wouldn't be playing eve.


But I sort of liked the more casual nature of faction war and the frequent quality pvp in it. The pvp did not require large fleets and you could get lots of good fights from plexes in the shortest possible time short of arranged fights in hubs and rvb. I am glad you will consider eliminating the station lock outs. That would be a big step toward keeping faction war an option for me.


If you end up keeping faction war as this more sov null sec type game then I would ask that you consider something like Jack Dent's proposal for low sec in general:


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=42987&find=unread


It's not not good as what faction war currently offers but it would offer casual players like myself who were in faction for the frequent small scale pvp something. There are a few of us who love eve and love small scale pvp but are not interested in this serious business of organizing sheep to blob and then gloat over all the isk we can now carbear.

I highly doubt the station lock out idea will be compatible with my style of play. With faction off the table I feel like my options are getting even more limitted after this expansion. Jack Dent's proposal would at least make low sec more promising for casual low sec pvpers and lessen the blow.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Andrea Griffin
#124 - 2012-05-09 20:17:19 UTC
I'm still very hesitant about the docking thing but you know what? Let's give it a try and see how it works in practice. Thank you for your hard work and finally giving FW some much-needed attention.
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
#125 - 2012-05-09 20:19:35 UTC
Mechanical Engineering Datacore, the most important datacore (and used in inventing all four racial varieties of ships) is exclusive to the faction with the easiest PvE (something you didn't address and going by your track record, never will. :soon: is pretty much CCP talk for never going to happen).

Words can't express how fvcking stupid you all must be.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#126 - 2012-05-09 20:32:35 UTC
Patient 2428190 wrote:
Mechanical Engineering Datacore, the most important datacore (and used in inventing all four racial varieties of ships) is exclusive to the faction with the easiest PvE (something you didn't address and going by your track record, never will. :soon: is pretty much CCP talk for never going to happen).

Words can't express how fvcking stupid you all must be.


Which faction is that now?

I see L4 agents of all Factions with Mech core research available.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#127 - 2012-05-09 20:36:06 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

I would hope that CCP is smart enough to

  1. Make the used prices be a global average
  2. Use Sell orders, not Buy orders to price them
  3. Make it delayed by an unspecified amount of time
  4. Average price changes on a smoothed running aveage curve


If they didn't, then yeah, this is going to turn out into a horrible, horrible gaming of the system.



so id have to put several obscene priced orders in a few regions to get the full benifit of this? im sure there are a few people in some of the nullsec areas that would happily do this with me if we consorted with alts. any module that has no real use (and there are quite a few) can be put up with minimal isk outlay.

It doesn't matter, what buy/sell order you use. Even Jita sees massive manipulation for items all the time.

I'm not saying you're wrong.

As I was implying before, I'm hoping that CCP didn't do something dumb and exploitable. They are opening up a very nasty can of worms by basing anything on actual market values, and I think there's something terribly wrong with the "ladder" system and the enhanced killmails, as well.

In other words, they best know what they're doing, or this is going to explode in their faces.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Mike deVoid
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2012-05-09 20:37:44 UTC
This has probably been asked already, but are you making any changes to the NPC in plex sites, with respect to the unequal EWAR and also the fact that they still spawn even if enemies militia come in to kill you :(
Metis Laxon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2012-05-09 20:41:35 UTC
Wonderful list of changes, I will join in as soon as it is released!
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
#130 - 2012-05-09 20:43:03 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Patient 2428190 wrote:
Mechanical Engineering Datacore, the most important datacore (and used in inventing all four racial varieties of ships) is exclusive to the faction with the easiest PvE (something you didn't address and going by your track record, never will. :soon: is pretty much CCP talk for never going to happen).

Words can't express how fvcking stupid you all must be.


Which faction is that now?

I see L4 agents of all Factions with Mech core research available.


Because I'm sure you feel so smart that you know what research agents are, answer this question for me. Why should the most important datacore, used in all 4 races of ships, be specific to one LP store?
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#131 - 2012-05-09 20:46:36 UTC
Good changes, but Mech Eng cores really should be available from all factions.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

FellRaven
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#132 - 2012-05-09 20:50:17 UTC
Not happy about the proposed datacore changes. I've spent a lot of time raising alt characters on my account to collect datacores. This doesn't just mean training the skills for research it also means training combat skills to mission so they can access level 4 agents. That is an investment of 3-4mil SP per character which you want to take away at a whim.

In contrast what have you done about the passive income from T2 BPOs that were given away in the lottery that RP could previously have been invested in? Nothing, invention is not a viable trade as you can not compete with T2 BPOs.

You don't seem to appreciate that this game needs passive income streams because those of us that PvP don't want to spend our time ratting or missioning instead. If you prevent people from making passive ISK and force them into PVE you will over time loose a lot of players.

I would suggest that you reconsider these changes very seriously.
Cosmoes
Peraka
#133 - 2012-05-09 20:51:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Cosmoes
OK I've had an idea for FW that was pretty similar to this for like 2 years but I'll explain the main differences

1. LP decrease was partially tied to individual systems. Idea is less mob mentality (keep killing amarr and eventually something good will happen) and rather I want to take system x so I can buy a bunch of cheap frigs and sell them in Jita. Also provide some more tactical environments to FW similar to moons do to 0.0

Lets use buying faction frigs as an example
- each system decreases LP cost a small amount (1%)
- Specific systems specialize in certain areas decrease it by a large amount (frig production system = 25%)
- Many systems have effect multiple items (speed based system = 5%)
- Possibly constellation bonuses added to it.

System examples
frig central (25% reduction to frigs, 5% reduction to small weapons, 1% reduction to all)

speed system(25% reduction to mwd/ab, 5% reduction to frigs, 1% reduction to all)

You'd want a few other systems/constellations to get the max reduction on a single item. You'd also need to take the enemies systems which have a similar (same?) bonus.


2. The more systems you control the less LP you get for all activities.

Currently the reverse of what is planned, this is to give the war a bit of an eb and flow rather than a steamroll. When one side is winning the other side offers better rewards in LP (though you won't want to cash in straight away).

As for story behind this. When a massive empire has to support a war in 5 systems as apposed to 50 they can give more rewards per system. FW space only makes up a fraction of the empires total space so we shouldn't see their complete collapse when those systems are taken.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#134 - 2012-05-09 20:57:31 UTC
Patient 2428190 wrote:
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Patient 2428190 wrote:
Mechanical Engineering Datacore, the most important datacore (and used in inventing all four racial varieties of ships) is exclusive to the faction with the easiest PvE (something you didn't address and going by your track record, never will. :soon: is pretty much CCP talk for never going to happen).

Words can't express how fvcking stupid you all must be.


Which faction is that now?

I see L4 agents of all Factions with Mech core research available.


Because I'm sure you feel so smart that you know what research agents are, answer this question for me. Why should the most important datacore, used in all 4 races of ships, be specific to one LP store?


I have my moments , i know, and they are awesome.
You however are also very angry, do you need a hug?

the CCP answer is "because we want to **** everything up.

but yes, i missed the part in the dev blog where they made mech cores Minmatar only.

there are others like Electromagnetic cores that are now gallente only, when caldari ships have hybrid bonuses too.

im sure that there are more.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Dratic
TURN LEFT
HYDRA RELOADED
#135 - 2012-05-09 20:58:26 UTC
while you are looking at lp related stuff. Please can we have an option to purchase multiple lp items at the same time?
Say i want 20 of an item at the moment we have to press accept 20 times which makes converting lp a chore.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#136 - 2012-05-09 20:59:32 UTC
Dratic wrote:
while you are looking at lp related stuff. Please can we have an option to purchase multiple lp items at the same time?
Say i want 20 of an item at the moment we have to press accept 20 times which makes converting lp a chore.


you actually have to click 40 times,

redeem offer
accept offer

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2012-05-09 21:01:59 UTC
I like these changes. I will keep an open mind.

I would prefer that neither offensive or defensive plexing gave LP until a a system is contested, because offensive plexing can be afk speed tanked by an unskilled alt too. I think it's equally subject to abuse.

I also don't like that neutrals won't be effected by the docking ban, because it just encourages the use of alts.

And please give us cyno jammers.

Regardless, you guys have obviously put a lot of work into this and seem committed to follow up. That, I like.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#138 - 2012-05-09 21:06:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
"First, the offer requirements in the respective faction LP store will decrease. As such, at the lowest tier, LP store offers will be 4x times more expensive as they are now, while at the highest tier, they will be 4 times as cheap. This only applies to ISK and LP requirements for offers, not tags or items. It also only counts for the 4 Factional Warfare militia LP stores; no other corporation will be affected."


I think I must have this wrong.

A navy micro auxillary power core now cost 1500 lp.

If I am fighting for a losing faction and therefore have the lowest tier it will be 4xs more expensive or 6000 lp.

If I am fighting for the winning faction and therefore have the highest tier it be "4xs as cheap" or 375 lp.

If that is correct then for the majority of items in the lp store the winning side effectively gets 16xs the lp for a pvp kill.

The losing side would get effectively 1/16 the lp for a pvp kill with respect to the shared items.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Orisa Medeem
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#139 - 2012-05-09 21:06:44 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Orisa Medeem wrote:
Two comments about the changes:

Quote:
[Given LP] = ([Market value of target ship] - [Max. Insurance market value] + [Fitted mods, rigs and subsystem market value] + [Transported items market value]) / 10000


Please take dropped items into consideration in that formula. They should either pay half compared to the destroyed ones, or nothing at all. This is important to prevent exploiting it.

If you're carrying 100,000,000 ISK in loot, the EV of the drop is 50 mil ISK, and the person killing you gets 10,000 LP from it. If you were trying to abuse it, you'd be hard pressed to make more than 50 mil ISK off of 10k LP.


Petrus, you forgot to take the dropped items into account.

By destroying a ship with 100m on cargohold you get 10k LP plus about 50m in loot. Turning these 10k LP into more than 50m may be hard right now, but after the changes are implemented it isn't clear to me that this is not possible.

That's why I mentioned that you should be payed only for what you really destroy.

:sand:  over  :awesome:

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#140 - 2012-05-09 21:11:29 UTC
Orisa Medeem wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Orisa Medeem wrote:
Two comments about the changes:

Quote:
[Given LP] = ([Market value of target ship] - [Max. Insurance market value] + [Fitted mods, rigs and subsystem market value] + [Transported items market value]) / 10000


Please take dropped items into consideration in that formula. They should either pay half compared to the destroyed ones, or nothing at all. This is important to prevent exploiting it.

If you're carrying 100,000,000 ISK in loot, the EV of the drop is 50 mil ISK, and the person killing you gets 10,000 LP from it. If you were trying to abuse it, you'd be hard pressed to make more than 50 mil ISK off of 10k LP.


Petrus, you forgot to take the dropped items into account.

By destroying a ship with 100m on cargohold you get 10k LP plus about 50m in loot. Turning these 10k LP into more than 50m may be hard right now, but after the changes are implemented it isn't clear to me that this is not possible.

That's why I mentioned that you should be payed only for what you really destroy.

If I remember correctly, current "good" ISK/LP rates are around 1000-1200 ISK/LP when cashing in your LP for stuff. Even if that quadrupled because of the 4x rewards (which it won't, because supply and demand will bring prices down), you would only be close to breaking even -- no potential for profit.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)