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New dev blog: Factional Warfare overhaul

First post First post
Author
Mike deVoid
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-05-09 17:42:29 UTC
I have 2 more questions:

1/ No planned changes to Faction Navy in highsec? Did you look at changes here and drop them, or did you just feel there was no compelling reason to make adjustments here?

2/ Will you consider allowing corps/alliances to swap sides in the war? What if I want to play FW on hardmode and continually join the losing side as the war shifts or join an FW militia essentially as a mercenary hire?
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#22 - 2012-05-09 17:43:27 UTC
I like the datacores and the shifting LP prices. As one side wins their stuff will become dirt cheap. Those in it for a profit will get bored as a faction's items swamp the market. The losing side will hopefully gain followers as their items become very expensive and coveted on the market. It will hopefully self regulate.

I would like to see new items in addition to the datacores added to the LP stores. And is there any time frame or even belief that the faction Osprey, Scythe, Exequror, and Augoror could be looked at? They really are quite horrible.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#23 - 2012-05-09 17:44:27 UTC
ZenithDK wrote:
This looks pretty awesome!

Have been thinking about getting into FW for a long time, but I didn't see much point in it - with 2 characters doing datacore mining, there will suddenly be a big interest in it for me.

One thing though:
Doesn't this sort of encourage that you take sov, buy all your data cores - loose sov, watch prices spike, and then you dump your cheaply acquired stash?
If a sufficiently large corp in FW can be deciding factor/work together with others, what's to prevent this?

Aaaaand we have our first metagaming idea for the new FW system: datacore cartel!

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#24 - 2012-05-09 17:44:44 UTC
Excellent changes. There will be a lot of knock-on effects even outside of FW. This is really great CCP. Nice work! Big smile

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Rhaile Vhindiscar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-05-09 17:45:33 UTC
"You want to do research, fine? The best way is to go kill people." I can see how that would play out to a potential scientist. So, are you really telling industrialist to join fw or just creating an interdependence without any real justification?

Overhaul datacore mining some other way. Get datacores out of FW. It doesn't make sense fluff wise or mechanic wise. You just got done telling people you're not going to let them shoot npcs to build things (drone nerf)...then you tell them you are going to make them shoot npcs to build things (fw overhaul). All you did was change the position in the production chain.
Muad 'dib
The Nine Nine
#26 - 2012-05-09 17:46:16 UTC
wonderful so all the systems the minnies have been steamrolling for the past week will stay they way till the new changes make it take 5x as long.

that makes sense thanks. /sarcasm/

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#27 - 2012-05-09 17:54:43 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
wonderful so all the systems the minnies have been steamrolling for the past week will stay they way till the new changes make it take 5x as long.

that makes sense thanks. /sarcasm/

Stock up on Amarr navy ships now, sell later when prices spike to afford your own steamroller?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Tia Aves
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#28 - 2012-05-09 17:56:59 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
ZenithDK wrote:
This looks pretty awesome!

Have been thinking about getting into FW for a long time, but I didn't see much point in it - with 2 characters doing datacore mining, there will suddenly be a big interest in it for me.

One thing though:
Doesn't this sort of encourage that you take sov, buy all your data cores - loose sov, watch prices spike, and then you dump your cheaply acquired stash?
If a sufficiently large corp in FW can be deciding factor/work together with others, what's to prevent this?

Aaaaand we have our first metagaming idea for the new FW system: datacore cartel!


I like this idea a lot, deals between opposing sides which could result in increased profit. It would probably be fairly hard to do but its a great notion.
Valkyrs
Deep Vein Trading
#29 - 2012-05-09 17:58:44 UTC
Great work guys, the idea of Factional Warfare sounded interesting to me when I started, but was urged by my mentor never to touch it, it was pretty much broken. Glad to see these things being resurrected. It gives me a conduit into PVP.

I'm a RP farmer, so I appreciate it not being phased out, I've spent a lot of time farming rep on several R&D corps. The added cost is low enough that it doesn't bother me, if it provides a money pit to bury some inflation I'm fine with that.

Also for the factional warfare system, I haven't played on Singularity but how will you handle unbalanced situations, where everyone joins FW for the faction with the most control? I realize that you plan on having diminishing returns, but it seems like that won't be enough to sway people to the losing side, or even keep the ones that are already on it.


Possible Improvements:

I believe running missions for R&D agents currently doubles your RP for the day, and ups your rep with that agent. Why not tie the price of cores to the agents rep, maybe making it more expensive then what you've set up, and have it go to a minimum of half. I'd personally run the missions more often if I knew they had a lasting effect on my wallet, I love that almost everything in EVE has an impact or can be changed.

Give incentive to players on a losing/smaller team. Perhaps a portion of all LP gained for a faction (5%, etc) could be distributed amongst all it's members, and thus there would be an allure just to be in small factions. Maybe once a faction reaches a critical size, systems that are farther away from the core of the faction receive a debuff relative to their distance, such as weaker guns or weaker tanks. And inversely a very small faction could get outlaying buffs to promote growth (and obviously, combat!).

Maybe you guys already have mechanics for this in place, I'm just thinking of the extreme cases where factions are close to collapse, where you want to entice players to join the losing faction as much as the winning one. Other then that I think the diminishing returns idea will provide a nice ebb and flow.

Keep up the good work!

Vanessa Vansen
Vandeo
#30 - 2012-05-09 17:59:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Vanessa Vansen
Excellent idea with the datacore! (yes, it is ironic)

Datacore available via Faction LP store -> no need to train science skills at all.
Together with new LP reward, you might be able to profit by teaming up with your enemy.

Destroy ship, get datacores form LP, sell datacores, profit
(which is btw not restricted to datacores)

I hope you did take that into calculations.

Short, I don't know about the faction warfare changes but
changes in R&D handling ... why at all? CCP does not like it and now they are kicking the ass of those who invested their training time to be able to use it, just because it's too passive. Well, how about getting rid of

  • Moon Mining? --- passive isk for corps/alliances and
  • T2 BPOs? --- passive isk for their owners, compared to inventing T2 BPCs from T1 BPC and the profit is great


So, unless providing access to some data, that's the wrong way to go.
CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#31 - 2012-05-09 17:59:58 UTC
I made the pictures in the blog a little bigger and made them link to even bigger versions. Go click them and stuff!

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Dock Workers
#32 - 2012-05-09 18:00:24 UTC
From the Blog: Capturing complexes will also cause half of the gained LP amount to be removed from the enemy Infrastructure Hub in the solar system

All below assumes solo plex capture.

a) If the enemy system you capture the plex in has no LP in its iHUB, do you still get the same amount of LP (e.g. 10,000 for a minor)

b) If the enemy system you capture the plex in has LP in it's iHUB, do you get more LP (e.g. 10,000 base + 5,000 = 15,000 LP for a minor)
wallenbergaren
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-05-09 18:01:43 UTC
The price fluctuations in the LP store seem way too big.
The difference between the two price extremes is a factor of 16. You're going to end up with LP being worthless because everything in the LP store costs too much, or LP being worthless because everything is too cheap and the market is oversaturated.
Bagehi
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#34 - 2012-05-09 18:02:54 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
Is current Sov held staying the same or being reset, sounds like it is staying the same?


We won't reset anything. Occupancy will be directly translated into Sovereignty in FW systems.


There will be tears. Though, I think this is the only option.
Cristl
#35 - 2012-05-09 18:07:22 UTC
Forums, you can eat my posts but you will never take my freedom! Anyway:

Are you sure about the datacore changes? Tying them to factional warfare doesn't seem to fit with research to be honest, and datacore farming was touted as passive income from the start.

Why else would you grind those horrible standings, pay all that money in skillbooks and then take up months of skill training time if not to either invent for yourself or sell to other inventors. It's the whole point. The missions are as boring as hell and pay poorly - no one does it for anything other than passive income. Now that's deemed undesirable? And why would the militia get datacores, surely they should get faction shiny stuff instead?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#36 - 2012-05-09 18:08:02 UTC
I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

PC5
project HAVEN
#37 - 2012-05-09 18:09:16 UTC
@CCP Ytterbium

1. Do you plan to check LP store item requirements? Some offers are crazy!

For example :
Imperial Navy Medium EMP Smartbomb BPC 5 run - costs 270k LP + 108m isk + 358 Republic Fleet Captain Insignia I + 595 Republic Fleet High Captain Insignia I
where
Republic Fleet Captain Insignia I x1 = 1,7m
Republic Fleet Captain Insignia I x358 = 608,6m
Republic Fleet High Captain Insignia I x1 = 0,7m
Republic Fleet High Captain Insignia I x595 = 416,5m

Lets Assume 1k lp = 1m

Total cost for that BPC in isks - 1133,1m + 270m = 1403,1 - thats just plain wroooong.
After manufacturing (who would be so stupid to teake that offer and do that) - 280,62m / module

Theres at last 20 such offers which requirements are totaly inbalanced. Ive pointed out just one.

2. What about cynojamers? No info about them in devblog. Have you abandoned that idea for FW?



I and other pilots would be realy grateful if you can answer those questions.

Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-05-09 18:09:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Smacker
Bagehi wrote:
[quote=CCP Ytterbium]
There will be tears. Though, I think this is the only option.

If the NFL were to change the number of points for a touchdown from six to one, they wouldn't do it during the Super Bowl with one team down by five. Smile

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#39 - 2012-05-09 18:11:42 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?

-Liang

All of the people looking for cheap rewards will join the winning faction, which can be good for the losing one if they want to gain heaps of LP from killing clueless people looking for easy money. Plus, it is very hard to swap factions due to the massive standings penalties you take from running the complexes or missions, so it provides reasons for people to stick with their side and drive it forward.

The 4x multiplier seems exaggerated, but it sounds like it would only occur when one side literally owns all FW space and has it all upgraded. I'm expecting more of a 1.5x multiplier maximum with the regular sovereignty swings.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-05-09 18:12:29 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?

-Liang

I made the suggestion there be an underdog modifier for a losing faction's PvP kills. It probably got lost in the forum heroics.

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.