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Why Tengu over the other T3s?
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Tenebrae Delucescere
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-09-29 18:12:40 UTC
So I love the idea of the T3 cruisers, but I really don't want to get into Caldari ships. I much prefer the Amarr and Minmatar route, but lurking around the forums the Tengu is the only T3 I see mentioned at all. Does the Tengu offer something that the other T3 cruisers don't? Is the difference so large as to make the other T3's really fall behind the Tengu, or are they for the most part comparable? I really like the Loki/Legion, but I hate to invest a lot of training time into something that just can't perform.
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#2 - 2011-09-29 18:34:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jennifer Starling
In PvP it's different but a fast 100km+ range ship with a great active/speed tank that always hits with up to 800+ DPS is really superior to almost all other ships in a lot of circumstances, especially PvE. Damage and range of the others is not comparable, to get the same damage output you need to get a lot closer, which is time consuming and risky. Also sleepers and other rats having onmi tanks lets Tengus make maximum use of their kinetic bonus. Next to that missiles have no tracking issues so you don't need to sacrifice DPS for drones if you're fighting webbers/scramblers.

.. to name a few things that make Tengus stand out.
Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
#3 - 2011-09-29 18:44:31 UTC
I see plenty of pilots in lokis and legions, even a few protis (I fly one myself). The main thing to remember is what you're going to be doing with it. Without a specific plan, I wouldn't recommend flying one. Popularity-wise though, I would rank them tengu - loki - legion - proteus.

They all can perform many roles, which is really the whole point of T3's, the versatility. So I'd say get a solid plan first then do some more research before investing the time/isk to get one, they are a hefty investment for sure.

"Music is a mysterious thing. Sometimes it makes people remember things they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember or not." - Citan Uzuki, Xenogears
Tenebrae Delucescere
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-09-29 19:01:17 UTC
Oops, I should have been more specific. For the time being, I'm really looking at a high sec pve/mission/incursion plan. I know I'll be going for Amarr battleships, and cross training with Minmatar. T3 cruisers are something I definitely want to get into, but I think I'll probably have to get myself in a position to be running L4s with something to afford one. Missles just aren't a concept I'm fond of. I know they're awesome, and can't say what I have against them, but there it is. Loki/Legion keeps me in the races/weapons I prefer, I just don't see them mentioned as much.

So the question then comes from the speed/range differences you mentioned. Is the Tengu able to achieve this by some mechanism unique to the ship, or is it a factor of using missles?
Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
#5 - 2011-09-29 19:13:15 UTC
Tenebrae Delucescere wrote:

So the question then comes from the speed/range differences you mentioned. Is the Tengu able to achieve this by some mechanism unique to the ship, or is it a factor of using missles?


Basically the missile/speed combo, it's just really effective in pve. You apply your full damage at range and npcs can't hit you, win/win (and if they do, the tank is still solid when you set it up right).

"Music is a mysterious thing. Sometimes it makes people remember things they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember or not." - Citan Uzuki, Xenogears
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#6 - 2011-09-29 19:34:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jennifer Starling
Tenebrae Delucescere wrote:
Oops, I should have been more specific. For the time being, I'm really looking at a high sec pve/mission/incursion plan. I know I'll be going for Amarr battleships, and cross training with Minmatar. T3 cruisers are something I definitely want to get into, but I think I'll probably have to get myself in a position to be running L4s with something to afford one. Missles just aren't a concept I'm fond of. I know they're awesome, and can't say what I have against them, but there it is. Loki/Legion keeps me in the races/weapons I prefer, I just don't see them mentioned as much.

Well, for PvE the Tengu clearly stands out, although you may not like it.

Funny thing is that after finishing Tengu skills I started training Amarr up to battleships and will turn to Minmatar after finishing Large Beam Spec IV. After which I'll train Minmi. Don't forget that a lot of Minmatar ships use shields and missiles as well though, so it's not a complete waste of time or skills to train Caldari ships. And even some Amarr ships use missiles, like the Khanid Curse, Vengeance, Malediction, Sacrilege and such.

Tenebrae Delucescere wrote:
So the question then comes from the speed/range differences you mentioned. Is the Tengu able to achieve this by some mechanism unique to the ship, or is it a factor of using missles?

Missiles already have a range advantage compared to beams or arties, the subsystems increase that by up to 50%. Same for dps: missiles are mediocre dps wise but the Tengu Accelerated Ejection Bay subsystem has two damage bonuses to really make the damage output very high.

The speed isn´t extraordinary, just decent (many Minmatar cruisers are still faster) but cruiser sized signature and speed combined with battleship-like DPS makes for a nice combo. Although there´s a PvP setup that uses the powergrid subsystem that lets you use a battleship sized AB so you get MWD speed without the signature penalty - at the expense of one launcher.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#7 - 2011-09-29 22:28:40 UTC
To put the overpoweredness of the Tengu into perspective, the Tengu can hit targets equally well from 0km to 110km. Traversal doesn't matter, only target speed and signature radius, and the Tengu can keep shooting as long as it has ammo in the hold.

The Legion can be configured to hit targets out to about 70km with heavy beam lasers and Radio crystals, but this sacrifices about 50% of its DPS. Being a turret weapon platform, the Legion's DPS is dependent on traversal/tracking as well. Up close with webs and Multifrequency crystals, the Legion can do more DPS than the Tengu, but it will run out of capacitor after a couple of minutes of shooting.

One advantage of the Legion over the Tengu is no reload time since it doesn't have an ammunition magazine that can be depleted. By the same token, the disadvantage of the Legion is that shooting a target can deplete the capacitor which means you have no tank. The Tengu has no capacitor concerns, since missiles use no capacitor and the ship can dictate range.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#8 - 2011-09-30 00:15:10 UTC
TL;DR : The Tengu is the preferred PVE T3 strategic cruiser of choice for similar reasons the Drake is the preferred PVE battlecruiser of choice for PVE - mainly the fact missiles hit regardless of how you maneouver and for decent enough DPS up to quite impressive ranges.

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Signal11th
#9 - 2011-09-30 08:50:54 UTC
Bascially the tengu is the swiss army penknife of ships, pretty much anything you want to do in EVE (obiously with exceptions) you can setup and get a good fit /tank./dps in a tengu. Range/speed/missle tracking.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Tenebrae Delucescere
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-09-30 12:36:58 UTC
Thanks for the info! I may have to look into missles after all.
Esperio Ferver
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-09-30 13:44:34 UTC
I would like to point out: missiles are good for missions and ratting. this is true. If you want to move on to doing pretty much anything else in the game, you will want gunnery skills.
also, when it comes to incursions, a good tengu will do well in a lot of fleets, but a dual web Loki will be welcomed into the best fleets. and as far as pve goes, incursions are a whole lot more interesting than mission running. It is tough to make that initial investment into doing it though, as its quite high (600m for an incursion loki maybe. not sure)
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-10-01 16:39:28 UTC
because HMs hit for full damage anywhere from 1m to 100+km, you can tank havens with t2 mods and shield skills are easy to train for

mind you that's for pve, proteus still has 800dps, loki has the rangeboosted webs (incursions ho!) and the legion is like a zealot but much better in every way
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#13 - 2011-10-01 23:05:25 UTC
I use to fly a proteus a lot in 2009. They do a lot of damage now, but their range I have not really liked. I fly legions now because HAM's are fun and the buffer on legions are just insane. I get about 750 DPS with a 250k buffer. I can pick my damage type. Also 1.7km/s is not bad at all for a huge buffer.

I may also get me a 100mn AB legion as well so I can control engagements. 2.2km/s with a slightly smaller buffer and dps is appealing because its got so many advantages in solo vs fleets. They are hard to keep tackled. I have seen a guy fly a tengu pretty well with a 100mn ab and he kills fleets with it. Staying at 30km and just pounding ship after ship. Hes like in the top 500 or so I think of eve pvp.