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Should projectiles still be the only ones doing all 4 dmg types?
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Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-05-09 09:39:29 UTC
I only open this for discussion. My personal belief is that it should stay the same because you know....physics and stuff.

Think about it in real life for a moment. How would a laser deal kinetic or explosive damage?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2 - 2012-05-09 09:51:54 UTC
You mean apart from Drones and Missiles, I presume?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Whiteknight03
Trilon Industries and Exploration
#3 - 2012-05-09 09:53:12 UTC
You know, I have heard vague mention of this amazing concept called "Missiles". In an even more nebulous fashion, whisperings of "Drones" have also come to my attention.

Real Life physics really have no place in EVE. If you think Lasers or Hybrids are unbalanced, come up with a good idea. Giving Hybrids an explosive/therm T2 ammo might be interesting. Lasers could get a Heat Damage crystal (Which would probably be somewhat ridiculous, but hey, crippling ships instead of killing them could lead into some new style of pvp which actually makes a profit).
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-05-09 09:54:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
Hakaimono wrote:
I only open this for discussion. My personal belief is that it should stay the same because you know....physics and stuff.

Think about it in real life for a moment. How would a laser deal kinetic or explosive damage?



How does a projectile round deal EM damage? Or thermal?

Because it is sci-fi.

In my opinion, lore does not stand in the way for kinetic/explosive laz0rs.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-05-09 09:57:41 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Hakaimono wrote:
I only open this for discussion. My personal belief is that it should stay the same because you know....physics and stuff.

Think about it in real life for a moment. How would a laser deal kinetic or explosive damage?



How does a projectile round deal EM damage? Or thermal?

Because it is sci-fi.

I see no reason why they can't invent a lore explanation how lasers do explosive and kinetic damage.



Just about anything can be loaded into a projectile. Thermal projectiles actually exist in real life.

Also, I should have mentioned before to disregard missiles and drones btw. Gunnery relevant munitions solely.
Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#6 - 2012-05-09 10:01:20 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Hakaimono wrote:
I only open this for discussion. My personal belief is that it should stay the same because you know....physics and stuff.

Think about it in real life for a moment. How would a laser deal kinetic or explosive damage?



How does a projectile round deal EM damage? Or thermal?

You could read the item description of those ammo's?
Not even very sci-fi

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#7 - 2012-05-09 10:44:57 UTC
Hakaimono wrote:

Think about it in real life for a moment. How would a laser deal kinetic or explosive damage?


Particle lasers would do both. And in fact quite a lot of the explosivey kind considering it's miniscule particles hitting something at near-light-speed.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-05-09 10:45:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Hakaimono wrote:
I only open this for discussion. My personal belief is that it should stay the same because you know....physics and stuff.

Think about it in real life for a moment. How would a laser deal kinetic or explosive damage?



How does a projectile round deal EM damage? Or thermal?

You could read the item description of those ammo's?
Not even very sci-fi


Minmatar is the Conan of EVE Online.

Conan's setting is "low fantasy" and Minmatar's tech "low sci-fi".

If you get my drift. And when you can find me an EM round in reality, then you can make the argument that they are not "very sci-fi".

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-05-09 10:55:40 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Hakaimono wrote:
I only open this for discussion. My personal belief is that it should stay the same because you know....physics and stuff.

Think about it in real life for a moment. How would a laser deal kinetic or explosive damage?



How does a projectile round deal EM damage? Or thermal?

You could read the item description of those ammo's?
Not even very sci-fi


Minmatar is the Conan of EVE Online.

Conan's setting is "low fantasy" and Minmatar's tech "low sci-fi".

If you get my drift. And when you can find me an EM round in reality, then you can make the argument that they are not "very sci-fi".


And EM projectile would be reality if it was at all cost-effective. Although I do agree with Minmatar being low-sci-fi compared to the rest.
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-05-09 10:57:21 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
Hakaimono wrote:

Think about it in real life for a moment. How would a laser deal kinetic or explosive damage?


Particle lasers would do both. And in fact quite a lot of the explosivey kind considering it's miniscule particles hitting something at near-light-speed.


Care to elaborate or link an article? I'm really curious about how that would work.
Perihelion Olenard
#11 - 2012-05-09 11:00:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Perihelion Olenard
Hakaimono wrote:
I only open this for discussion. My personal belief is that it should stay the same because you know....physics and stuff.

Think about it in real life for a moment. How would a laser deal kinetic or explosive damage?


Projectiles already have great damage, range, tracking, and use no capacitor. They don't need a variety of damage types as well, although there's not much I can do about it. I thought they were fine before the buff.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-05-09 11:23:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Darthewok
The way to do it is to reduce the proportion of damage that can be varied by ammo types for Minmatar.
For example EMP ammo is
10.35 EM
2.3 Kinetic
1.15 Explosive
That is 75% EM damage

Change it to something like
8 EM
5.8 Explosive
Something like 58% EM damage

So let Projectiles continue to be able to switch a lower portion damage types, but not to such a large degree. For example 60% not 75% and tie the damage more to explosive.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-05-09 12:26:23 UTC
When a laser vaporizes a tiny point, an explosive shockwave is generated at the surface of the enemy hull.
I don't see how a laser would do kinetic damage, for that you'd need a particle beam, which lore wise, is sort of what blasters are.

Therre is no reason hybrids can't fire the same shells as projectiles. In fact AM rounds should do mainly EM and explosive.

Antimatter would make big explosions, and give off lots of gamma rays (which are EM radiation)
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#14 - 2012-05-09 12:34:33 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Hakaimono wrote:
I only open this for discussion. My personal belief is that it should stay the same because you know....physics and stuff.

Think about it in real life for a moment. How would a laser deal kinetic or explosive damage?



How does a projectile round deal EM damage? Or thermal?



nuclear artillery
EM and thermal damage from a 280mm projectile.

Kinetic and explosive is easy enough to understand, a typical capped shell with a burster fits that bill.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#15 - 2012-05-09 12:49:15 UTC
Darthewok wrote:
The way to do it is to reduce the proportion of damage that can be varied by ammo types for Minmatar.
For example EMP ammo is
10.35 EM
2.3 Kinetic
1.15 Explosive
That is 75% EM damage

Change it to something like
8 EM
5.8 Explosive
Something like 58% EM damage

So let Projectiles continue to be able to switch a lower portion damage types, but not to such a large degree. For example 60% not 75% and tie the damage more to explosive.


Nuclear shells don't actually do explosive damage in space. They are just a circular blob of energy with the casing and non fissioned materials being ejected in all directions.

I presume the game implementation is intended to represent a proximity fused shell that goes off at or about the "shield" and doesn't risk direct contact with armor plate which might shatter the mechanism.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-05-09 12:50:15 UTC
Interesting. But I'm fairly sure it isn't EM damage in the way EVE utilizes it?

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-05-09 13:01:11 UTC
I think I read somewhere that an EM shell uses a minor nuclear event to 'pump' a photonic blast. Basically a flash-bang grenade powered by a suitcase nuke. The bulk of the energy is converted directly to EM radiation. Same with missiles.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#18 - 2012-05-09 13:30:44 UTC
My only concern with projectiles is all projectile ammunition should have at least 25-50% explosive damage...
I do not mind projectile ammunition being able to use all other damage types too.

What I would ALSO like to see was tracking enhancer fall-off bonus being reduced to 15% like their optimal bonus. The medium ACs are slaughtering frigates due to having the best tracking around with a huge fall-off projecting the damage way out where frigates are supposed to kite...

Pinky
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#19 - 2012-05-09 13:38:19 UTC
The simple answer is: Yes.
Why? Because projectiles have the worst unbonused DPS of all turret weapons.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-05-09 13:46:53 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
You mean apart from Drones and Missiles, I presume?



I'd put missiles for sure but never drones. Those being a very poor man choice because of all their drawbacks due to coding, lag, and a lot of funky stuff you already know.

This said, I don't see any valid reason why a third dmg type can't be added to lasers or hybrids, this doesn't have to be on top of existent ones but should be a possible choice.

Like add Explosive dmg to lasers and Em to hybrids. If we start thinking about for a while this is something absolutely possible but, bringing reality in a game it's not the good thing to go.
Then the question remains, why projectiles can do it all when only missiles should be able to?
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