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Jump Drives, breaking Eve for years
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Kieron VonDeux
#61 - 2012-05-08 23:47:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kieron VonDeux
Bootleg Jack wrote:
Anytime anyone tries to have a grown up discussion about some of the issues behind the low rate of conversion from new player to PvP Pixel Macho Man shows up Lol


Kind of like the unwelcome gnats at an evening barbeque.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2012-05-09 00:35:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie-A Tassik
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
Contagion wrote:
I completely agree. I've been in Eve since beta and 0.0 used to be much more exciting because to get your goods out you had to launch a convoy and protect it, and fly your goods out. Not a single jump, or perhaps 2 and your safely in high-sec.

Jump drives have ruined 0.0


These days you would need a blob-escort and moving goods out of nullsec will end up for many players to an operation impossible because of beeing blob-camped on the routes all the time. Final result is: goods are stucked in nullsec, players with real life unsub due to lack of time for a stupid logistics overkill in a game what should bring fun and not just more work.


The thing some people don't realize is the absurd speed of Jump Drive travel is what makes blobs of this size possible.

If the blobs were forced to move across the map at anything like a reasonable speed... say one hour to cross the whole map.... then the blobs would spend to much time moving from blob-target to blob-target.

Then KM starvation leads to boredom leads to blob fracturing or shrinking in size.

Slower Jump Drive travel speed=Smaller blobs.

Only because the Blob-saur is faster than than the fastest little frigate-mouse allows it to maintain it's ponderous size without KM starvation.
ELECTR0FREAK
#63 - 2012-05-09 00:37:21 UTC
It's likely been mentioned already, but it looks like the OP has missed one minor detail... in order to jump to a location, a fleet member already has to be there.

Discoverer of CCP's original missile damage formula.
Ken Cook
Doomheim
#64 - 2012-05-09 00:39:17 UTC
Expected OP to be in Evi Uni
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#65 - 2012-05-09 00:40:50 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
Contagion wrote:
I completely agree. I've been in Eve since beta and 0.0 used to be much more exciting because to get your goods out you had to launch a convoy and protect it, and fly your goods out. Not a single jump, or perhaps 2 and your safely in high-sec.

Jump drives have ruined 0.0


These days you would need a blob-escort and moving goods out of nullsec will end up for many players to an operation impossible because of beeing blob-camped on the routes all the time. Final result is: goods are stucked in nullsec, players with real life unsub due to lack of time for a stupid logistics overkill in a game what should bring fun and not just more work.


The thing some people don't realize is the absurd speed of Jump Drive travel is what makes blobs of this size possible.

If the blobs were forced to move across the map at anything like a reasonable speed... say one hour to cross the whole map.... then the blobs would spend to much time moving from blob-target to blob-target.

Then KM starvation leads to boredom leads to blob fracturing or shrinking in size.

Slower Jump Drive travel speed=Smaller blobs.

Only because the Blob-saur is faster than than the fastest little frigate-mouse allows it to maintain it's ponderous size without KM starvation.

Is this about jump drives or jump bridges?

You seem to imagine that the supercapital fleets wouldn't still blob, just really slowly make their way from one structureshoot to the next.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Shian Yang
#66 - 2012-05-09 00:41:02 UTC
ELECTR0FREAK wrote:
It's likely been mentioned already, but it looks like the OP has missed one minor detail... in order to jump to a location, a fleet member already has to be there.


Greetings capsuleer,

*shake shake shake*

It would seem the answer is "maybe".

Regards,

Shian Yang
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-05-09 00:42:30 UTC
ELECTR0FREAK wrote:
It's likely been mentioned already, but it looks like the OP has missed one minor detail... in order to jump to a location, a fleet member already has to be there.


It's called a logged out alt. Each account can have up to three of them.

Is the poster trying to tell me "it would take 4 Alt accounts to allow a 200 capital ship fleet to cross the whole of Eve in less than 15 minutes"?

Well. Four accounts. That's quite a lot. You do have a point there.
Adunh Slavy
#68 - 2012-05-09 00:43:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Actually I think that it should be the other way around, let ALL ships dial in system to system warps, the range of which depending on the usual factors (power, skills, rigs, implants, etc) and get rid of these crap gate mechanics entirely.



Get rid of gates and get rid of cynos. Jump bridges are ok, so long as sov is a part of it. However maintaining map adjacent systems, that is, one must jump to a currently connected system, might be in order, so that there isn't any "hopping over", though not for bridges.

All of this would require a rework of the scanner.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#69 - 2012-05-09 00:44:05 UTC
Ok, hurry and tell CCP to do this. Oh and delete Cynojammers while you're at it, since we don't need them anymore.

Off you go to the suggestions forum ~~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-05-09 00:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie-A Tassik
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Is this about jump drives or jump bridges?

You seem to imagine that the supercapital fleets wouldn't still blob, just really slowly make their way from one structureshoot to the next.


First, blobs would still exist but they would be smaller.

Second, blobs couldn't arrive in time to help one of you more stupid FC's if he and his buddy decided to attack a Low Sec pirate corp of tengus and basilisks with only his carrier and his buddies dread. He would then be killed and the blob would arrive in time to recover his horribly mutilated corpse.

This teaching moment would lead him to making less of a loudmouth *ss of himself on the forums and thus improve the quality of life for everyone.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#71 - 2012-05-09 01:28:32 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:

I especially enjoy you being able to drop 1000 man blobs on me anywhere in Eve in under 10 minutes.

Cause if it takes you longer than ten minutes to get anywhere in Eve, then that is to long.

Many people operating in High Sec are wondering if you are high right now.


A) 1000 man blobs don't just happen, they take planning or a galvanizing reason for everyone to log in (like a surprise attack on a hub system).

B) going somewhere far away involves a lot more than you realize. Scouting, spy reports, alt management, fuel logistics, setting up of safepoint POSes along the route and at the destination if a friendly station is unavailable (in terms of a deployment), etc. Essentially, every time you see a big fleet go a long distance fast, dozens to hundreds of man hours were involved to make that possible. Jumping blind makes you vulnerable. Hot drops are very risky.

C) You obviously have never deployed somewhere far away in Null. It is tedious as hell, even with jump drives, jump bridges, and the like.


I'm willing to bet he's never deployed ANYWHERE in null.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#72 - 2012-05-09 01:32:10 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
...not spend multiple days moving assets for one day's worth of fun.


You mean like in Highsec?
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
ELECTR0FREAK
#73 - 2012-05-09 01:32:57 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
ELECTR0FREAK wrote:
It's likely been mentioned already, but it looks like the OP has missed one minor detail... in order to jump to a location, a fleet member already has to be there.


It's called a logged out alt. Each account can have up to three of them.

Is the poster trying to tell me "it would take 4 Alt accounts to allow a 200 capital ship fleet to cross the whole of Eve in less than 15 minutes"?

Well. Four accounts. That's quite a lot. You do have a point there.


No, I'm saying someone has to put them there (whether its yourself or someone else it doesn't matter), and thus you can't just jump anywhere you want in EVE without sending a regular ship there first. Which kinda defeats the majority of your argument.

Discoverer of CCP's original missile damage formula.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#74 - 2012-05-09 01:40:41 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Is this about jump drives or jump bridges?

You seem to imagine that the supercapital fleets wouldn't still blob, just really slowly make their way from one structureshoot to the next.


First, blobs would still exist but they would be smaller.

Second, blobs couldn't arrive in time to help one of you more stupid FC's if he and his buddy decided to attack a Low Sec pirate corp of tengus and basilisks with only his carrier and his buddies dread. He would then be killed and the blob would arrive in time to recover his horribly mutilated corpse.

This teaching moment would lead him to making less of a loudmouth *ss of himself on the forums and thus improve the quality of live for everyone.


What business does an NPC corp player have dictating anything about caps and supers? It's not like he can use them in high-sec.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#75 - 2012-05-09 01:48:00 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
What business does an NPC corp player have dictating anything about caps and supers? It's not like he can use them in high-sec.

Detect a forums alt ~~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#76 - 2012-05-09 01:49:24 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
What business does an NPC corp player have dictating anything about caps and supers? It's not like he can use them in high-sec.

Detect a forums alt ~~


So I just have to wonder where this person lives that Jump Drives would be cause so much impotent frustration.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2012-05-09 01:56:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie-A Tassik
Lapine Davion wrote:
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Is this about jump drives or jump bridges?

You seem to imagine that the supercapital fleets wouldn't still blob, just really slowly make their way from one structureshoot to the next.


First, blobs would still exist but they would be smaller.

Second, blobs couldn't arrive in time to help one of you more stupid FC's if he and his buddy decided to attack a Low Sec pirate corp of tengus and basilisks with only his carrier and his buddies dread. He would then be killed and the blob would arrive in time to recover his horribly mutilated corpse.

This teaching moment would lead him to making less of a loudmouth *ss of himself on the forums and thus improve the quality of live for everyone.


What business does an NPC corp player have dictating anything about caps and supers? It's not like he can use them in high-sec.


What place do you have mouthing off non-stop about high-sec?

You goons don't even understand basic aggression mechanics in high-sec.

That was boringly easy. Maybe that's because, Davion, you are a boring person.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2012-05-09 01:58:46 UTC
ELECTR0FREAK wrote:
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
ELECTR0FREAK wrote:
It's likely been mentioned already, but it looks like the OP has missed one minor detail... in order to jump to a location, a fleet member already has to be there.


It's called a logged out alt. Each account can have up to three of them.

Is the poster trying to tell me "it would take 4 Alt accounts to allow a 200 capital ship fleet to cross the whole of Eve in less than 15 minutes"?

Well. Four accounts. That's quite a lot. You do have a point there.


No, I'm saying someone has to put them there (whether its yourself or someone else it doesn't matter), and thus you can't just jump anywhere you want in EVE without sending a regular ship there first. Which kinda defeats the majority of your argument.


It was actually a part of my argument. Larger corps have more logged out cyno alts in all sorts of places which make cyno'ing even more powerful for them than smaller corps.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#79 - 2012-05-09 02:02:42 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Is this about jump drives or jump bridges?

You seem to imagine that the supercapital fleets wouldn't still blob, just really slowly make their way from one structureshoot to the next.


First, blobs would still exist but they would be smaller.

Second, blobs couldn't arrive in time to help one of you more stupid FC's if he and his buddy decided to attack a Low Sec pirate corp of tengus and basilisks with only his carrier and his buddies dread. He would then be killed and the blob would arrive in time to recover his horribly mutilated corpse.

This teaching moment would lead him to making less of a loudmouth *ss of himself on the forums and thus improve the quality of live for everyone.


What business does an NPC corp player have dictating anything about caps and supers? It's not like he can use them in high-sec.


What place do you have mouthing off non-stop about high-sec?

You goons don't even understand basic aggression mechanics in high-sec.

That was boringly easy. Maybe that's because, Davion, you are a boring person.


So you can't answer the question? My question has nothing to do with high sec mechanics and has everything to do with nullsec mechanics. So where are you from Jessie-A?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2012-05-09 02:06:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie-A Tassik
Lapine Davion wrote:

So you can't answer the question? My question has nothing to do with high sec mechanics and has everything to do with nullsec mechanics. So where are you from Jessie-A?


Somewhere Locator agents will never find me.