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Adaptive Hardeners Feedback

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Copine Callmeknau
Callmeknau Holdings
#21 - 2012-05-09 00:22:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Copine Callmeknau
Shish Tukay wrote:
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Because it doesn't adapt at all. Just like the existing items that are named "Adaptive ThingX". Do a quick market search on the world "adaptive"

Yes it does, try actually testing modules before spewing crap on the forums ^^


I've sat here for half an hour taking damage on my adaptive invulnerability field, and it's still 25/25/25/25 Sad

I'm guessing you only meant to reply to one specific sentence when quoting the entire thread? What?

Jesus.


The adaptive armour hardener adapts, that and ONLY that module is a resistance-shifting hardener that adapts to incoming damage.
It also works fine, contrary to what certain idiots on the first page have stated


Why you're complaining that invulns and EANM aren't shifting their resistance is beyond me

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Shish Tukay
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-05-09 00:41:56 UTC
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Why you're complaining that invulns and EANM aren't shifting their resistance is beyond me

I'm not complaining about the modules, I'm complaining about you - your fail-quoting implied that the guy was totally wrong, when in fact he was only 1/3 wrong P
2ofSpades
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-05-09 03:37:10 UTC
Good to see a ccp reply on here! Thanks and nice job with the vengeance paint, the silver looks good.
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#24 - 2012-05-09 06:07:10 UTC
I've experimentedwith the module, but insofar I've not considered it too usefull. Seems like a good old EANM is better in all situations.
Copine Callmeknau
Callmeknau Holdings
#25 - 2012-05-09 08:09:18 UTC
Shish Tukay wrote:
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Why you're complaining that invulns and EANM aren't shifting their resistance is beyond me

I'm not complaining about the modules, I'm complaining about you - your fail-quoting implied that the guy was totally wrong, when in fact he was only 1/3 wrong P

He is totally wrong though, and I quoted his whole post :p
He only made two statements
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Because it doesn't adapt at all.

Wrong, it does adapt, slowly.

Adunh Slavy wrote:
Just like the existing items that are named "Adaptive ThingX"

Wrong, it does not function like the current 'Adaptive [thing]' modules



Why is this even a thing anyway?
Can't we go back to discussing how this module is basically useless except on the tightest rep fits?

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
Transgress
#26 - 2012-05-09 08:13:03 UTC
I would like to know if there is a plan to iterate on this module in the future and add higher meta variants?

Right now it is marginally better than T1 EANM. As EANM uses no cap, and uses benefits of compensation skills. Adaptive module is active and does not take any bonus from compensation skills.

Don't take me wrong. I think the module is well balanced. But it is still meta 0 module and balanced to other meta 0 modules. But we have named, T2, faction and deadspace versions of EANMS which overshadow this T1 adaptive hardener.
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
Transgress
#27 - 2012-05-09 08:21:11 UTC
Copine Callmeknau wrote:


Why is this even a thing anyway?
Can't we go back to discussing how this module is basically useless except on the tightest rep fits?


The module is quite useful. Meta 0 EANM gives +15% to all resists, +20% with all compensation skills at max.

Adaptive hardener gives +15% to all resists before adaptation. Will shift to +30% against NPCs (as all of them uses at least 2 damage types) and +60% if being shot by single damage type (missiles).


If we get T2 variant with +20% base resists it would compare to T2 EANM quite nicely.

T2 EANM with all skills: +25% to all resists.
T2 adaptive hardener base: 20% to all resists.
T2 adaptive hardener against 2 damage type NPC: +40%
T2 adaptive resist against single damage type: 80% Shocked now this is probably overpowered.
Perihelion Olenard
#28 - 2012-05-09 11:25:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Perihelion Olenard
Since it takes so long to adapt I wouldn't use it. In that time it takes to adapt you're taking more damage waiting for it to pass the effectiveness of a tech 2 EANM while spending a lot of capacitor. Moreso if some other damage type hits you after you adapt. In addition, the EANM is boosted by armor compensation skills and uses no cap at all.
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2012-05-09 14:35:09 UTC
Regarding the higher meta level versions, yes this will most likely happen once we get the T1 version exactly right. Might not happen in time for Inferno though.

Regarding the cycle time, this is something we're monitoring. Adjusting the time (either directly or through the use of skill) is still very much an option.
Cathrine Kenchov
Ice Cold Ellites
#30 - 2012-05-09 14:58:31 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding the higher meta level versions, yes this will most likely happen once we get the T1 version exactly right. Might not happen in time for Inferno though.

Regarding the cycle time, this is something we're monitoring. Adjusting the time (either directly or through the use of skill) is still very much an option.


Through use of a skill would be much preferred I think. Any and all bonuses to training skills higher, especially to 5, is always a nice move imho.

Also a faction mod that has reduced duration would be a good addition as well.
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#31 - 2012-05-09 18:08:36 UTC
Cathrine Kenchov wrote:
Also a faction mod that has reduced duration would be a good addition as well.

Agreed, especially if the faction is one of the niche armor factions like Khanid or Ammatar. Assuming the module is desirable, it would encourage the mission runners to move to less popular (from an LP point-of-view) areas.

MDD
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#32 - 2012-05-09 18:27:03 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Cathrine Kenchov wrote:
Also a faction mod that has reduced duration would be a good addition as well.

Agreed, especially if the faction is one of the niche armor factions like Khanid or Ammatar. Assuming the module is desirable, it would encourage the mission runners to move to less popular (from an LP point-of-view) areas.

MDD


Speaking as someone who likes running missions these quieter areas (among others), this would be a nice addition. :3

Given the common 5%/level bonus to armor resists given to most Khanid T2 ships (with the exception of the Anathema, Curse and Heretic), I could easily see this module being a special one only available via Khanid LP stores (as an example). But I'd throw it at the Ammatar as well just to give them something special too. Derelik could use a bit of love as well.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#33 - 2012-05-09 19:53:58 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding the higher meta level versions, yes this will most likely happen once we get the T1 version exactly right. Might not happen in time for Inferno though.

Regarding the cycle time, this is something we're monitoring. Adjusting the time (either directly or through the use of skill) is still very much an option.


A lesse cycle time would make it far far more atractive for PVP. Consider this:

One person fits a Adaptive module. One person flies a missile ship (single damage type). Person with missiles shoots and swaps ammunition to another type after he figure the adapter has adjusted completly. Rinse and repeat.
Illrean
Old Prospectors Roid Alliance for Harvesting
#34 - 2012-05-09 19:56:40 UTC
So are we going to be able to "Modulate the Shield Harmonics" and be able to do this with shield tanks.. or is this going to only be an Armor Tank thing?
Perihelion Olenard
#35 - 2012-05-09 20:56:57 UTC
A shorter cycle time would increase the capacitor this module uses, unless that's adjusted too.
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
Transgress
#36 - 2012-05-10 10:19:22 UTC
Illrean wrote:
So are we going to be able to "Modulate the Shield Harmonics" and be able to do this with shield tanks.. or is this going to only be an Armor Tank thing?


So far this is armor only module. Shield got fueled shield booster.
Kein Echerie
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-05-10 10:55:39 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Cathrine Kenchov wrote:
Also a faction mod that has reduced duration would be a good addition as well.

Agreed, especially if the faction is one of the niche armor factions like Khanid or Ammatar. Assuming the module is desirable, it would encourage the mission runners to move to less popular (from an LP point-of-view) areas.

MDD


Speaking as someone who likes running missions these quieter areas (among others), this would be a nice addition. :3

Given the common 5%/level bonus to armor resists given to most Khanid T2 ships (with the exception of the Anathema, Curse and Heretic), I could easily see this module being a special one only available via Khanid LP stores (as an example). But I'd throw it at the Ammatar as well just to give them something special too. Derelik could use a bit of love as well.

eh
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
Transgress
#38 - 2012-05-14 18:07:06 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:
2ofSpades wrote:

(2) The other part I noticed was the hardener didnt seem to re-adapt. I was getting shot by a drake and my resistance was all kin and a proteus warped in started shooting me. The drake had stopped shooting me but my resistance didnt re-adapt to therm/kin for the proteus. This flaw actually worked out to my advantage because I had a thermal hardener fitted so I was able to avoid a stacking penalty. After I reset the hardener it did adapt to the proteus giving me 50/50 therm/kin. Once again not very adaptive but still a cool idea, you should nerf the drake with a 15% morphing shield resistance bonus instead of its 25% across the board.


The version we have is pretty simple. It just takes one point of the two lowest resists and adds them to the two highest resists. When it has no more points to take it just does nothing. The issue you have now is that your hardener has adapted to only kinetic damage which means all the other resistances are now at zero. This means as long as your kinetic damage is is one of the two highest damage types you take then it well never shift to take your second highest one into account. This seems slightly broken to me so I'll bring it to the attention of my team.



I would like to know if this was fixed or if it is still the issue.
Silly Slot
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-05-14 18:30:36 UTC
wait no T2 for launch now im sad :(

I thought CCP's main push in the last release was to get rid of all the missing T2 modules and fix that issue

now we're adding more T1 items that will lack T2'???????????????????
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-05-14 23:55:46 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Cathrine Kenchov wrote:
Also a faction mod that has reduced duration would be a good addition as well.

Agreed, especially if the faction is one of the niche armor factions like Khanid or Ammatar. Assuming the module is desirable, it would encourage the mission runners to move to less popular (from an LP point-of-view) areas.

MDD

Ammatar has more or less a rebranded Amarr Navy Store.

Adding it to Khanid could work, then again all the items in the really small LP stores usually end up in a faction warfare LP store in a version that is plain better in every attribute for an eighth to a quarter the cost.