Science & Industry

The only thing that is still ongoing is that week after week people who have no idea what they're talking about get the wrong idea and then refuse to face the facts when they're presented to them. T2 BPO's are ignored because every time they're looked into by people who have even a hobbiest level of knowledge on the subject the same conclusion is reached; there's nothing that needs changing about T2 BPO's.

What do you mean 'not profitable enough'? Are you saying a BPO owner makes more ISK / hour on a single slot than an inventor building and selling the same item on a single slot? Correct! Gold star! Are you saying that inventors can't make millions of ISK an hour producing and selling the exact same items? Incorrect! Dunce cap! Are you saying that an inventor can't make more ISK / hour on a single slot than that BPO holder by choosing a different product? Incorrect! Repeat the eighth grade!

1- run numbers on T2 passive hardeners

2- pick any T2 ammo... run your numbers on those (if you find one that isn't profitable take any other T2 ammo because the one you picked first isn't used by people because it sucks - T2 ammo issue not T2bpo or invention issue)

3- compare your profits

4-now see why some T2 bpos are useless but still cost a few billion

5- compare a few T2 ammo types and check their profits according to the flavor of the month and swap your inventions accordingly

6- looking at 5, laugh at the poor fello who has a T2 bpo wich isn't making much profit because of market priceflux


or you could train spreadsheet lvl5 and work yourself into modules, but it seems you are to lazy to actualy look into things before posting **** about inventions and profits...


nuff said

though i have no issues with T2bpos, you're neglecting the fact you can produce from invention on 10 other slots and build from a bpo on the other ^^

however, that is not going to change much on the T2bpo having influence on the market ( if the market has the trade volume)


anyway, people who are shortsighted about t2bpos and fail to invent with profit wont understand anyway... so I'm just going to +1 you :D

As "Remove T2 bpos" threads are spammed, I post this here also :

Invention was profitable, you can see a picture of my saved Excel spreadsheet below, used for the last time on 2009, June 14th

You can see sorted by margin what to invent and how.

The complete sheet has 456 lines and the xls file weights 8,6 Mo. Each combination to invent and produce T2 ship is examined, weighted and sorted according to all invention costs (datacores, decryptors) and production costs All prices are loaded from EVE-Central daily.

It was ultimate weapon to invent with a profit, I strongly recommend to each inventor to build similar sheet before to come and whine about how it's unprofitable to invent

I don't use it anymore due to lack of interest for invention , but this is the proof that :

I invented much (my corpmates also, tens of inventors involved)
I know what I'm talking about and did all the maths to make it profitable business
Even If I had tens of T2 ship bpos at this moment, I was inventing also for great profits.
T2 bpos and invention are no antinomian but complementary

What to invent and how sorted by margins

Probability Matrix Used

Edit : added ship prices (Jita, 2009/06/14) : T2 ship prices

Edit : added minerals/datacore/decryptor/advanced materials prices : Price Index

Invention IS profitable, but many of your numbers are inappropriately optimistic at best and outright faulty at worst. Consider, for example, the Golem which, at -1 ME, you give a production cost of 959.1 million with a per-unit profit of 337.93 million.

While it's true that the low sell price in The Forge presently sits at 1.297 billion, the peak daily high for the last month is 980 million, which tells us that the units presently for sale - both of them ( ) - are set at hail-mary prices hoping for a desperate buyer during a supply shortage. They might yield that profit margin, but it would not be a wise investment option for an invention job. They have been climbing in price to match the increasing production costs, but 1.3 billion is substantially above the current price curve (which sees an increase in the daily average of about 4.5m per day over the last 30 days).

Since the current price disparity is not the result of a sudden demand spike, a more realistic margin prediction would be closer to 30-60 million which, while still profitable, is probably not worth the copy, invention, and production time.

This, of course, is not the fault of T2 BPOs, as none exist for the item in question.

Also, line 20: Sabre ME -3 - obtained by Thrasher BPC 1-run and nothing.

Here kids, you can have one for free: Modulated strip miner IIs are pretty good right now. They have a strong mix of margin and volume that yields good profitability in both absolute terms and in slot-hours. So, for the would-be inventor who doesn't know his head from his ass, there's a pretty good starting point.

One small caveat: Deep Core Miner Is have a highly volatile price right now. While I would usually recommend against building your own components, in this case, it's warranted as the current market price is ludicrously out of bounds. They build fast. Hell, build some extra and see if you can capitalize on the volatility, if you want - just be cautious about it, as deeply out-of-bounds prices tend to correct suddenly and viciously.

Pro tip: Due to the breakdown of materials that go into this item, it is almost completely unaffected by efficiency. For maximum effect, sacrifice a tiny (TINY) slice of your margin and go ahead and build these in a rapid assembly array.

Additionally, I would recommend going JIT on these and taking them to market ASAP. I wouldn't characterize the price as "volatile", but it's definitely going through a period of adjustment. It doesn't appear to be in danger of plummeting, but it will likely come down a bit yet as the mining changes settle in and Hulkageddon draws to a close.

eaiset way to fix t2bpo is leave the owners alone stfu and deal with the fact they have a toy you dont and get over it like everyone has beat to death like a pinyata at a fat kids party the numbers show that inventors hold the bigger share of the market for t2 sales sooooooo go drink a flask of acid and do everyone a favor

All very true, and it's probably the point that separates the actual industrialists from the jealous clowns who have never once plugged in a blueprint.

I'm all for anything that would increase the profitability of invention. I'm not going to argue with more money in my wallet.

Most of the suggestions that are so often repeated, though, won't result in more money in my wallet. They might result in less income for BPO holders, but why should I want that? Schadenfreude, maybe, but since I'm over the age of twelve, I don't exactly get a lot of mileage out of that.

It also takes a particularly unique brand of stupidity to be incapable of grasping that the arbitrary destruction of asset value to the benefit of absolutely nobody would be extremely detrimental to the game as a whole. "Come to New Eden, invest thousands of hours building your net worth, see it arbitrarily deleted to quell the whining of some imbecilic child who can't do basic arithmetic," is not exactly strong marketing material.

And we've reached a point, now, where the anti-BPO crowd, having been shown the numbers, is essentially saying, "Hm, yes, I see that the math clearly shows that my argument has no basis in reality, and, no, I cannot offer any figures of my own to contradict those points, but I'm STILL not going to budge from my position because it never had anything to do with facts anyway. I just want to deprive other people of their stuff because I am jealous."

Exactly. But think one step beyond. Customers are not NPC customers, they have limited funds to sink in daily PvP.

PLEX price is the golden standard now and everyone refers to this reference the price it pays.

Higher T2 prices, lower demand. Customers will prefer T1 or faction or even T3 if T2 prices continue to spike. On a wider market more profits would be made by all inventors., even if net profit per item is lower, more sales will do more income.
And cheaper T2 combat ships will make them more popular : newcomers would skill up more for them, market would grow instead of capping or decreasing.

As a PvPer, I don't like T2 combat ships at this moment, they cost too much, are too shiny and get primaried too often.

As a ship producer from T2 bpos, I prefer less profit but easier sales, and less capital invested into buy orders for materials, component manufacturing and ship manufacturing. At this moment, to make 1 Bil profit from my T2 bpos, I need to invest 7 Bil into production processes (which makes 14% return on invested materials per month), depriving other investments.




Of course I don't want a nerf to the profit of anyone, just to make T2 invention easier.
Before Dominion Dysprosium was the bottleneck, now it's Technetium, but not for the same reasons. There were not enough Dysprosium for the demand. There is enough Technetium but it is the subject of rampant speculation.

if there is no attempt to play down the profits of any person, the status quo will remain, and inventors continue to feel that their profits are insufficient, and will continue to accuse the owners of T2 BPOS.

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again. T2 BPOs are on the market. If you really hate them, save your pennies, buy them, and trash them. No new T2 BPOs a being created, given time and some cash, eventually they'll all be gone.