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Do you group your weapons or not?

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Calhontor
Munchkin's
#1 - 2012-05-08 11:45:01 UTC
I have spoke to many ppl about grouping weapons and it seems that many ppl do not bother to group them at all.
So i was just wondering if most ppl do group them and if so why?
Here's a few advantage and disadvantages that i've hear about grouping please feel free to confirm whether or not they are true/valid points. :

Advantages :

1 : Easier to activate all your weapons on a target instantly.

2 : Easier to change ammo types.

3 : Easier to reload.

4 : More UI space.

5 : Less lag (supposedly)

Disadvantages :

1 : Unable to split weapons between targets (Can't see why you would do this but its a valid point)

2 : Unable to load different ammo type into different weapons quickly. (again cant see why you would want to)

3 : Unable to quickly see how much damage each weapon has taken from overheating.

4 : Sometimes not all the weapons in a group will be firing and its hard to tell (Iv'e had this happen)

5 : Some ppl seem to believe that grouped weapons do less dps??(cant see how this is the case though)



Please feel free to comment on these and add your own reasons for grouping or not grouping.
WNxWolfy
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-05-08 11:49:25 UTC
You deal more damage with weapons ungrouped.
That being said, in a large fleet you'll want weapons grouped in groups of 8/4 to alpha targets before reps can catch.
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#3 - 2012-05-08 11:51:01 UTC
ships like nightmare maelstrom and rokh will often overkill some ships with just half rack of weapons, thus the 4/4 split is what I use more often.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-05-08 11:51:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
Calhontor wrote:


5 : Some ppl seem to believe that grouped weapons do less dps??(cant see how this is the case though)


I'm just a newbie, but I can guess: a grouped group of Turrets only get one "hit roll" as they all fire one attack. So you'll "Barely scratch" with all your Turrets. If you fired 'em individually I guess they get individual "hit rolls" so that some might "Wreck" the enemy whilst others "Barely Scratch".

Anyway, I group them out of convenience. But it sure does look a lot cooler if you separate them and set them to fire with like .5 seconds between mouse clicks. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Looks especially cool if they are tracking different targets!

EDIT: Is it possible to sort your groups? i.e have two groups of "Generic Projectile Auto-Cannon I" rather than one big? Or must I purchase two different kinds?

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Anja Talis
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal
#5 - 2012-05-08 11:56:13 UTC
You're missing a disadvantage. If you burn out one gun in the group, the whole group becomes inactive. In the heat of the action it's easy to forget that there might be some working guns in a burnt out group!
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#6 - 2012-05-08 11:58:28 UTC
We do all the hit/damage amount calculations (including wrecking shots) per-gun, even with grouped weapons. It's just that the total damage from each volley is then aggregated and applied to the target in one go.
Doctor Caprician
The Denisovan Initiative
#7 - 2012-05-08 12:01:38 UTC
So is there, or is there not, a loss to DPS when using grouped weapons?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#8 - 2012-05-08 12:03:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
I'm pretty sure that grouping has separate "rolls." I've done fairly extensive testing on this with 1400mm, and have recorded grouped shots with impossibly-low damage values using the damage formula.

That said, grouping weapons causing a reduction in dps is a myth.

To answer the OP, I group all guns, in most cases, except 1400mm, which I stagger with different ammo types to maximize damage against smaller targets that can be popped in 1-2 volleys.

Edit: Dev confirmed what I said while I was typing my reply.

Once again, to answer the poster above me, grouping doesn't reduce dps.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#9 - 2012-05-08 12:03:27 UTC
from what greyscale says, no there isnt any increase in DPS, but grouped guns are better for server performance i believe.
StudleyManiac
Dark Space Syndicate
#10 - 2012-05-08 12:04:01 UTC
Yes there is a loss

Rounding error..... but it is less than 1*(number of turrets).
Doctor Caprician
The Denisovan Initiative
#11 - 2012-05-08 12:05:28 UTC
StudleyManiac wrote:
Yes there is a loss

Rounding error..... but it is less than 1*(number of turrets).



Thank you. :)
Lexmana
#12 - 2012-05-08 12:05:49 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
We do all the hit/damage amount calculations (including wrecking shots) per-gun, even with grouped weapons. It's just that the total damage from each volley is then aggregated and applied to the target in one go.

Even if it was calculated for the whole group it would not make any difference in DPS, it would just vary more between volleys.

That said, you can get more DPS from ungrouped guns if you have multiple targets since you waste less of your damage output when the target dies.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#13 - 2012-05-08 12:12:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
I see that a dev commented. Never mind.
Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#14 - 2012-05-08 12:20:40 UTC
This does, of course, all apply only to guns, which have random damage.

The idiots ungrouping their misile launchers are just trying to make more lag, me thinks.
Lexmana
#15 - 2012-05-08 12:22:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Jiska Ensa wrote:
This does, of course, all apply only to guns, which have random damage.

The idiots ungrouping their misile launchers are just trying to make more lag, me thinks.

Why would it be different for missiles? Missiles may make it harder to optimize volley size with ungrouped launchers but the same principle apply.
malaire
#16 - 2012-05-08 12:34:48 UTC
I usually group weapons, but when fighting targets which die fast (e.g. low level missions with my quite high skills) I make 2 groups and attack 2 targets at once since that is more efficient. (2 kills per cycle instead of 1).

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-05-08 12:38:08 UTC
How exactly do you group weapons into two or more groups? Since I am using the same guns, I can only group all of them in one...

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#18 - 2012-05-08 12:52:48 UTC
Drag the guns you want grouped on top of each other. That way you can make more than one group.
Lexmana
#19 - 2012-05-08 12:53:34 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
How exactly do you group weapons into two or more groups? Since I am using the same guns, I can only group all of them in one...

Try drag and drop but don't use the same target spot for all guns.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-05-08 12:59:01 UTC
So simple. Never thought of that.


I've used the "Group All Weapons" function up until now....

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
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