Missions & Complexes

Never use mwd with either Mach or Tengu. Mach is far harder to speedtank, and harder to tank in general. Anyone who's used both can tell. As for dps, real kill speed for Mach is lower than EFT graph would suggest. For Tengu, always use faction ammo instead of fury. Tengu has dps issues with Amar rats, but generally do better than Mach on kinetic ones. Lower kill speed for Amar rats is usually the most striking thing you notice with Tengu. Fragile tank is what you notice with Mach.

Sorry, before this I actually thought you were one of the people that knew about blitzing and how to max isk making from missions.

You don't need to speed tank a mach. Maybe with a tengu, yes. But that's another bonus for the mach - you don't NEED to speed tank, so you fit an MWD so you can easily burn around for mission objectives, pulling off blitzing manoeuvres, etc.

If you're having trouble tanking in a Mach and absolutely need an AB to speed tank, you're doing something wrong, to put it bluntly.

can't really comment about the tengu since I can't fly one, however, my buddy flies a nighthawk, (with command ships 5) in a fully gank fit state with heavy missiles (t2) and we go head to head in missions vs angel rats. I run a mach with the triple gyro's, both bs trained to lvl 4 current, and pretty average gunnery skills.. I've found that the range is pretty even between them, we both shoot from around 70k ( i hear the tengu can kite further, but damn missiles take forever to land). I can insta a frigate, he doesn't. I can in some cases one volley a battlecriuser, he takes two shots. And on battleships, it's pretty even. unless i'm 20k off it, then it's no contest, the dps on the mach is overwhelming. Point is, I can lock a target and put dps down on it much faster than missiles can. I usually end up killing whatever i'm hitting before he's gotten a missile on it. as for the speed issue with the tengu, my mach aligns just as fast as a command ship (with only a single polycarb rig, and two aux thruster rigs) and with ab on, (plus a couple cheap ZOR implants, can move around a room at 714km/s so.. not slow.. But I guess i'll buy my buddy a tengu, and put the mach head to head with it... tho i'm sure i'll still love my mach more. it's just beastly up close.

as for the tank, clearly you get more tank out of a tengu, but the mach speed tanks very well. and with an extra large shield booster to pulse as needed, it's not really an issue to tank, because everything is dead before it gets close enough to touch you.

Terrible advice. Mach with mwd almost never loses dps to falloff when you know the spawns and it has enough tank for any mission. Tengu with mwd gets to acc gate in wc 2x faster than ab tengu and doesnt need to speed tank at all.



Do not underestimate arty mach. I know not many people ever tried it, but it can certainly kill triggers /and clear whole mission too/ in sansha blockade much faster than tengu with thunderbolt furys. 120k falloff not being affected by npc tds is nice thing to have when facing sanshas. Its not faster than tach nightmare, but pretty close.

No way I would use faction ammo over fury. Way too expensive and no need.

I dont know about the train time leading up to it because I am not an Evemon warrior.

The mach is faster or equal for every almost single mission. I have done every mission in both except Amarr, and every Amarr mission I have done, the mach is faster.

The exceptions to the rule are rushing WC @ Recon III, the tengu is faster b/c you can burn to the gate faster. In the other gate burning missions, you use a frig, not the tengu or mach. And the time differences are minimal.

Also, the mach can fit a MWD w/o changing anything, the tengu needs more power grid.

This is comparing t2 weapons on the tengu vs scouts on the mach. I am much closer to "all 5's" on the tengu.

Unless you get a HAM tengu, you will never beat a mach in mission time, and even then you will be slower on more than half of the missions with hams. You standings take a big **** when you start declining missions, and if you dont decline missions in a HAM tengu you are taking doing it wrong to the next level.

To everyone that said the tengu has more tank, get some sunshine. OFC it does. And you only need 500 to do any l4, which a mach gets with only 3 shield modules. putting 800 omni tank on a l4 mission runner is silly.

Mach - 800m, rigs - 30m, faction gyros - 3x 65m, faction shield booster - 100m, rest of fit 30m.
Together around 1,2b.

I personally liked flying mach MUCH more than flying tengu. Counting volleys is really annoying, as well as watching every apoc/mael on undock/gate. And instapoping npc frigs with mach is very satisfying.