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A Suicide Gankers guide to keeping your Hulk off a killmail.

Author
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-05-07 19:31:11 UTC
Tanking certainly will help. Suicide gankers are lazy just like everyone else. There are tons of easy pickings out there.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#22 - 2012-05-07 19:31:30 UTC
AureoBroker wrote:
i do not understand two categories:
Failing PVPers (because seriously, how serious can you be at suicide ganking?) giving failed advice in economics;
Risk adverse miners actually following it.
Moving ore, proven you can refine it (or can get someone to refine it for you) is pretty easy - so yes, being near a hub is terrible.

Now, for basic math - The cost of not fitting 2x MLU, proven orca support and hauling, is ~20% yield - that is, roughly, 500 m3/minute, or 30k m3/h. This, at the current prices for Veldspar(+5%) means roughly 6m/h.
This can repay an hulk in 50 hours. Will tanking more avoid a gank every 50 hours? Unlikely.
For further math: a Covetor loses the same yield over a Hulk. a Covetor loss is eight times less significant than a hulk loss: proven you get ganked more often than one time in 50h, unless a tank will scoff off seven ganks out of seven (which is unlikely) a Covetor is a far better option than a MLUless Hulk.

TL;DR
at 1 gank/50h, a Covetor / tanked hulk is better than a MLU'd hulk.
At a 7/8 survival rate due to the tank, a tanked hulk is better than a covetor.

Evidence suggests than even in busy systems (such as Scheenins, were i mined myself in the day) 1 gank/50h is unlikely.
Stop being risk-averse and MLU that hulk.

No, they'll still whine when they get blown up anyway. Even if it is optimal to just mine more in between ganks, it's always optimal to whine unless you're ignored nearly 100% of the time.

It reduces risk by increasing the chance that CCP will reduce their risk for them.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

AureoBroker
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-05-07 19:33:27 UTC
Unless you're, indeed, mining in Amarr during hulkageddon, you'll hardly ever go over a gank every 50 hours of mining.
That makes tanking the hulk antieconomic, and by that reason bad advice, that nevertheless gets thrown around, by the same people that by not understanding taking business risks ridicule the people actually making the smartest choice.
The rest of the post is sound, but that bit needs to be iterated on or removed.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2012-05-07 19:38:42 UTC
AureoBroker wrote:
Unless you're, indeed, mining in Amarr during hulkageddon, you'll hardly ever go over a gank every 50 hours of mining.
That makes tanking the hulk antieconomic, and by that reason bad advice, that nevertheless gets thrown around, by the same people that by not understanding taking business risks ridicule the people actually making the smartest choice.
The rest of the post is sound, but that bit needs to be iterated on or removed.


If you are willing to accept the risk then go for pure yeild, nothing wrong thatBlink
Lexar Mundi
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-05-07 19:42:26 UTC
I tell my miners to fit a good tank to their hulk, and by good tank I mean living in -1.0 space and checking D scan every 10 seconds lol
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-05-07 19:46:10 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
CCP has tutorials for everything else. Why not a quick "how not to die" course?
You can't teach common sense.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-05-07 19:53:10 UTC
Andoria Thara wrote:

Saw one just like this on the KB, along with a long list of comments along the lines of "tanking won't help, don't even bother"


Don't suppose you have a link for it?
Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-05-07 19:53:48 UTC
with 25000 ehp you need to bring more than one ship. but 2 tornado's with overloaded 1400's can insta kill a hulk no matter what. So there really is no point in tanking lol.

Something clever

Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-05-07 19:55:15 UTC
Digital Messiah wrote:
with 25000 ehp you need to bring more than one ship. but 2 tornado's with overloaded 1400's can insta kill a hulk no matter what. So there really is no point in tanking lol.


People put locks on their bicycles, cars and houses. Even though a determined robber could break the locks.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2012-05-07 19:55:44 UTC
Digital Messiah wrote:
with 25000 ehp you need to bring more than one ship. but 2 tornado's with overloaded 1400's can insta kill a hulk no matter what. So there really is no point in tanking lol.


The vast bulk of gankers will not waste a nado on a hulk let alone two or three other than in special events.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-05-07 19:58:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Digital Messiah wrote:
with 25000 ehp you need to bring more than one ship. but 2 tornado's with overloaded 1400's can insta kill a hulk no matter what. So there really is no point in tanking lol.


The vast bulk of gankers will not waste a nado on a hulk let alone two or three other than in special events.



Quoted for the ultimate truth.
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2012-05-07 20:01:17 UTC
Digital Messiah wrote:
with 25000 ehp you need to bring more than one ship. but 2 tornado's with overloaded 1400's can insta kill a hulk no matter what.
Overloading the 1400s will not make any difference to an ˆinsta kill”.
Serene Repose
#33 - 2012-05-08 00:39:38 UTC
le bump

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#34 - 2012-05-08 01:14:25 UTC
Shukuzen Kiraa wrote:
Why do people assume that a Hulk pilot can avoid being ganked if he is paying attention? If a Catalyst warps in on you, you are not warping away before he opens fire. Sure you can spend a little extra tanking your hulk... but at most it will take a whole 2 Catalysts to kill you're overly expensive mining ship.

You never heard of aligning? If you're aligned and paying attention it's impossible for you to be tackled by that cat.

Ever heard of CONCORD shield? Fit a tank and watch concord blow them all away


Don't blame game mechanics on you being terrible

There should be a rather awesome pic here

Raiz Nhell
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-05-08 01:24:56 UTC
I love hearing my 75% shield warning from the next room and run in just in time to see CONCORD lay waste to the unfortunate ganker...

Then its loot the wreck and GTFO quick...

All because I turned on my Invul fields and my DCU, its amazing what difference they make when activated.
Its not hard...

Oh and stay aligned... or at least moving.

And if its all gone pear shaped, sit back, spam warp and watch the pretty explosions...

There is no such thing as a fair fight...

If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage.

Darth Snuggles
Doomheim
#36 - 2012-05-08 01:35:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Digital Messiah wrote:
with 25000 ehp you need to bring more than one ship. but 2 tornado's with overloaded 1400's can insta kill a hulk no matter what. So there really is no point in tanking lol.


The vast bulk of gankers will not waste a nado on a hulk let alone two or three other than in special events.


...like frikkin' HULKAGEDDON baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#37 - 2012-05-08 01:54:33 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:
Tanking certainly will help. Suicide gankers are lazy just like everyone else. There are tons of easy pickings out there.


Confirmed. Because seriously, why shoot the tanked miner when there are at the very minimum a dozen untanked ones in system. This is all it takes most of the time. You don't even have to be particularly clever. Just make sure you're not THE dumbest guy in belt.
Mupdadoodidda Bix Nood
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-05-08 01:58:37 UTC
It's not fair that gankers can just kill mining ships at minimal loss to themselves. To prove a point, you will never ******* see a ganker use a battleship anymore since there would be an amazing sense of loss without insurance. See, everytime someone even ******* mentions it they bitchwhine how the ganker gets to be the Godthumb and deliver a bitchslap of justice at minimal risk to themselves. See, that is called...get this you will ******* laugh out loud...risk adversion. You will never see a faction battleship take out a hulk with CONCORD retalliation, because like the guy they are shooting in the hulk but the ganker won't admit it...THEY ARE BOTH ******* HUMAN! Both the idiot in the hulk and the ganker in the destroyer, are spending time in highsec where hulk is getting minimal isk per hour (cause no where makes more and is total safe) while the ganker is spending mimimal risk of losing something. But they both pay the exact same amount to CCP, therefore....both should be ******* losers. Buff the hulk to survive DPS of tier 3 battleships and hulks have zero insurance payout...both parties are loosing several hundred million...which is equally fair. Or the hulk could get a make over, but we all know what the loud whiney Thai wh*re noise level parties do not want to happen. ( CCP should of just killed the mining profession all together.)

Everytime some idiot says that highsec is to safe, please show us exactly where the **** at all safe option is. What exactly prevents you from firing on a hulk, this option that makes them totally safe. What is it? Is it that....no wait this is not WoW where there is PVP only areas. See, when you fire on a hulk....without a wardec...in highsec....YOU FACE ******* REPERCUSIONS OF YOUR ACTIONS...BUT WHINEY LITTLE NEED THEIR ASS WIPED BY MOMMY RISK ADVERSE PILOTS DON'T LIKE LOSING TO CONCORD....No different then every other guy who you ******* blew away in lowsec and null....NO ******* HUMAN LIKES LOSING....but highsec is the only option that makes the least amount of isk (Where you you make more, with less risk then highsec? You can't nerf the bare minimum). Therefore, when one guy makes less isk YOU the other guy should face far more repercusions for your actions to blow them away. When they move elsewere for more isk with more risk...then its balanced.

Nothing prevents you from actually blowing the hulk away, but you don't like that POW! WHAM! KA-BOOM! sensation like when your father backhanded you for doing stupid as a kid...but as an adult you feel the need to do what ever you want with minimal repercussions. Sorry, but if you avoid risk just as much as the hulk pilot spending time in highsec...guess what you are no better if you pull the ******* trigger or not you are avoiding repercussions to your actions. That is something CCP needs to figure out, because they ****** up 9 years ago when they relized "OH, we didn't know that when you let someone do what ever you want...who is it that is actually right when both parties are our customers." Who faces the most risk? How do you make the most isk and what is acceptable minimum isk? How do you balance it...since its so grindly to replace something like a hulk that just ******* explodes because it only has two ******* fitting options that are barely adequate while nearly all other T2 ships have at least three: Max gank, Max Tank, Balanced Gank/Tank that doesn't ******* pop so easily unless OVERHWHELMING alpha hits it. The bare mimimum CCP needs to do is make it just as ******* grindy to replace sec status as it is to replace a hulk plus locking out even a ******* pod from highsec unless a bare minimum of -2.0 is reach and forget their ******* stupid idea to allow criminal tags to raise sec status. Sorry, but if you have to ******* grind to replace a hulk then the other guy has to ******* grind sec status...with one tick every 15 minutes and not every session change...then both parties are spending equal time grinding.

Oh, and for every ******* idiot that spouts "Fit a tank" to a hulk let me ask you...why didn't your subcap shitfleet adapt and not fly a subcap shitfleet anymore when your ass got splattered by titan guns? Bitchwhine got CCP to step in and fix this obvious "problem" when like a hulk pilot "fits a tank" when perhaps the ******* problem between the chair and the keyboard should of not bitched but insteaded of adapted their tank from a subcap fleet to a capital ship fleet of their own. Logic my friends, you are welcome for me pointing out that the last round of Titan nerfs where unecessary because you could not adapt just as much as you tell a hulk pilot to adapt a tank. To bad you never want to take a loss and certainly don't want CCP to fix such a stupid ship such as the hulk. You know what, knock every destroy down to 5 guns there by allowing it to have more then a frig and now it can get a hitpoint boost...then we can call it balanced without touching the hulk.

******* hypocrites, always beliving you get to apply max risk and punishment while avoiding it yourself. Wish CCP would HTFU like their little theme song and just cause SP loss to occur everytime your ship was destroyed for any reason (not T3 anymore.) Oh yes, even you will feel a soul tearing, nut crushing sense of loss in this version of EVE. ****, even permanent character death at ship explosion would balance out
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#39 - 2012-05-08 02:05:03 UTC
Mupdadoodidda Bix Nood wrote:


******* hypocrites, always beliving you get to apply max risk and punishment while avoiding it yourself. Wish CCP would HTFU like their little theme song and just cause SP loss to occur everytime your ship was destroyed for any reason (not T3 anymore.) Oh yes, even you will feel a soul tearing, nut crushing sense of loss in this version of EVE. ****, even permanent character death at ship explosion would balance out



Would this apply to the hulk pilot as well?
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-05-08 02:07:36 UTC
Mupdadoodidda Bix Nood wrote:
It's not fair that gankers can just kill mining ships at minimal loss to themselves. To prove a point, you will never ******* see a ganker use a battleship anymore since there would be an amazing sense of loss without insurance. See, everytime someone even ******* mentions it they bitchwhine how the ganker gets to be the Godthumb and deliver a bitchslap of justice at minimal risk to themselves. See, that is called...get this you will ******* laugh out loud...risk adversion. You will never see a faction battleship take out a hulk with CONCORD retalliation, because like the guy they are shooting in the hulk but the ganker won't admit it...THEY ARE BOTH ******* HUMAN! Both the idiot in the hulk and the ganker in the destroyer, are spending time in highsec where hulk is getting minimal isk per hour (cause no where makes more and is total safe) while the ganker is spending mimimal risk of losing something. But they both pay the exact same amount to CCP, therefore....both should be ******* losers. Buff the hulk to survive DPS of tier 3 battleships and hulks have zero insurance payout...both parties are loosing several hundred million...which is equally fair. Or the hulk could get a make over, but we all know what the loud whiney Thai wh*re noise level parties do not want to happen. ( CCP should of just killed the mining profession all together.)

Everytime some idiot says that highsec is to safe, please show us exactly where the **** at all safe option is. What exactly prevents you from firing on a hulk, this option that makes them totally safe. What is it? Is it that....no wait this is not WoW where there is PVP only areas. See, when you fire on a hulk....without a wardec...in highsec....YOU FACE ******* REPERCUSIONS OF YOUR ACTIONS...BUT WHINEY LITTLE NEED THEIR ASS WIPED BY MOMMY RISK ADVERSE PILOTS DON'T LIKE LOSING TO CONCORD....No different then every other guy who you ******* blew away in lowsec and null....NO ******* HUMAN LIKES LOSING....but highsec is the only option that makes the least amount of isk (Where you you make more, with less risk then highsec? You can't nerf the bare minimum). Therefore, when one guy makes less isk YOU the other guy should face far more repercusions for your actions to blow them away. When they move elsewere for more isk with more risk...then its balanced.

Nothing prevents you from actually blowing the hulk away, but you don't like that POW! WHAM! KA-BOOM! sensation like when your father backhanded you for doing stupid as a kid...but as an adult you feel the need to do what ever you want with minimal repercussions. Sorry, but if you avoid risk just as much as the hulk pilot spending time in highsec...guess what you are no better if you pull the ******* trigger or not you are avoiding repercussions to your actions. That is something CCP needs to figure out, because they ****** up 9 years ago when they relized "OH, we didn't know that when you let someone do what ever you want...who is it that is actually right when both parties are our customers." Who faces the most risk? How do you make the most isk and what is acceptable minimum isk? How do you balance it...since its so grindly to replace something like a hulk that just ******* explodes because it only has two ******* fitting options that are barely adequate while nearly all other T2 ships have at least three: Max gank, Max Tank, Balanced Gank/Tank that doesn't ******* pop so easily unless OVERHWHELMING alpha hits it. The bare mimimum CCP needs to do is make it just as ******* grindy to replace sec status as it is to replace a hulk plus locking out even a ******* pod from highsec unless a bare minimum of -2.0 is reach and forget their ******* stupid idea to allow criminal tags to raise sec status. Sorry, but if you have to ******* grind to replace a hulk then the other guy has to ******* grind sec status...with one tick every 15 minutes and not every session change...then both parties are spending equal time grinding.

Oh, and for every ******* idiot that spouts "Fit a tank" to a hulk let me ask you...why didn't your subcap shitfleet adapt and not fly a subcap shitfleet anymore when your ass got splattered by titan guns? Bitchwhine got CCP to step in and fix this obvious "problem" when like a hulk pilot "fits a tank" when perhaps the ******* problem between the chair and the keyboard should of not bitched but insteaded of adapted their tank from a subcap fleet to a capital ship fleet of their own. Logic my friends, you are welcome for me pointing out that the last round of Titan nerfs where unecessary because you could not adapt just as much as you tell a hulk pilot to adapt a tank. To bad you never want to take a loss and certainly don't want CCP to fix such a stupid ship such as the hulk. You know what, knock every destroy down to 5 guns there by allowing it to have more then a frig and now it can get a hitpoint boost...then we can call it balanced without touching the hulk.

******* hypocrites, always beliving you get to apply max risk and punishment while avoiding it yourself. Wish CCP would HTFU like their little theme song and just cause SP loss to occur everytime your ship was destroyed for any reason (not T3 anymore.) Oh yes, even you will feel a soul tearing, nut crushing sense of loss in this version of EVE. ****, even permanent character death at ship explosion would balance out


This is a master shitpost in all its glory. Did you not read anything in this thread its complete guide with extra hints on how not to die in highsec with your hulk
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
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