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Why are miners more important than...
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Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-05-07 17:44:42 UTC
Everyone else? Seriously?

now longer part:

It is well known that CCP raged hard about "mining with guns baad" "reprocessing baad" and did things that we know they did. result is easily seen on market, tier 3 SB hull costs as much as fully fitted and rigged fleet BS cost just few months ago.

I want a valid reason why minerals should come from mining only and how game gets better from it.
Because in my opinion any tweak/fix should be done for the game and not group of players.

Now, I would have absolutely nothing against mining, but there is a thing that I just can't get out of my sight. it's the fact that mining is horribly bad, boring and mind scratching activity. I have never seen a game mechanic in any game that would be equally bad. you basically warp to belt, ctrl+click an object and activate lasers. and that's it, then you just sit there for 2 hours.or more.

splendid

I mean PVE in eve doesn't shine either but it is many miles ahead from mining.
So why should PVE be discouraged and mining encouraged?
How will overall game experience improve if today's lvl4 runner will mine trit?


Discuss
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#2 - 2012-05-07 17:48:45 UTC
Well, some ask for a more active way of mining, those who supposedly mine(while constantly staring at the screen), say no to such ideas.

However, it being a proff like every other activity in eve deserves courtesy circle jerks as well.

I think it's mental, but w/e.

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#3 - 2012-05-07 17:49:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Next expansion: Harvesting changes or How I stopped caring and learned to love the hulk.
Also: ring mining.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-05-07 17:49:38 UTC
Economics,it doesn't mean what you think it means.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
stoicfaux
#5 - 2012-05-07 17:54:26 UTC
Tub Chil wrote:

Now, I would have absolutely nothing against mining, but there is a thing that I just can't get out of my sight. it's the fact that mining is horribly bad, boring and mind scratching activity. I have never seen a game mechanic in any game that would be equally bad. you basically warp to belt, ctrl+click an object and activate lasers. and that's it, then you just sit there for 2 hours.or more.

I don't have much hope that CCP can fix the tedium of mining, since CCP's new and exciting game mechanic to fix tedium is... suicide ganking miners: "you basically warp to belt, ctrl+click an object a miner and activate lasers guns. and that's it, then you just sit there in the station for 2 hours.or more 15 minutes until your flag clears."

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#6 - 2012-05-07 17:55:08 UTC
Professions.

Rewarding players for their preferred play styles and skill investments.

Previously, a mission runner could also gain the benefits of being a miner and a T1 manufacturer...just by running their missions. (aka 'gun mining')

The minerals you got from refining your unwanted modules/drone poo competed with the minerals generated by the miners, driving down prices.

The meta0 modules you got and resold competed with a manufacturer of the same kind.

The problem is that you invested in one skill set... mission running. Yet you compete with someone who invested in mining and manufacturing just from your drops alone AND you got benefits on top of it that the miners and manufacturers didn't get (Mission rewards, faction standing gains).

By removing meta0 modules and drone poo from NPC drops, that means the only real source of minerals will come from miners...and the only real source of T1 meta0 modules will come from manufacturers. This reduces the competition for those goods and increases their profit margins to the point where mining and manufacturing become viable career options.

You still benefit from your career choice as the Meta0 and drone poo nerf didn't touch your mission rewards, LP gains, corp and faction standings.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-05-07 17:56:53 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:
Economics,it doesn't mean what you think it means.

Implying economy is why we play this game for
Implying economy is improved
Implying the more expensive stuff is the healthier economy is
explaining everything logically with arguments.

well played
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-05-07 18:00:17 UTC
Pinstar Colton wrote:
Professions.

texttext.


I know that mission runner could compete with miner before, and I'm saying it is a great thing because mining sucks donkey balls.
Arbitrary specialization is not important.
Balthisus Filtch
RISE Inc.
#9 - 2012-05-07 18:02:34 UTC
Well mining is put forward by the developers as a career choice in EVE.

Mining was yielding the worst hourly earnings of any profession. The reason was that the produce of mining was being made available too readily via several other routes.

Now, should mining be a profession in EVE - I don't know the answer it is hellishly boring and a route for botting. That is really another argument entirely though.

But given that CCP clearly do take it seriously as a profession / element of game play the recent updates make a lot of sense and were very logical changes to make to improve the value of mining/miners.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#10 - 2012-05-07 18:04:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Tub Chil wrote:
Pinstar Colton wrote:
Professions.
Arbitrary specialization is not important.
…and yet it's the reason. If you deem the answer not important, then that says a lot about the question.
Quote:
So why should PVE be discouraged and mining encouraged?
False dichotomy.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#11 - 2012-05-07 18:04:58 UTC
Tub Chil wrote:
I have never seen a game mechanic in any game that would be equally bad. you basically warp to belt, ctrl+click an object and activate lasers. and that's it, then you just sit there for 2 hours.or more.

You can be ganked, too. That's some excitement.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
#12 - 2012-05-07 18:05:24 UTC
Is this yet another "I don't like mining so I think everyone should stop doing it!" thread.

Yes, yes it is. My reply? Suck my donkey balls.
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#13 - 2012-05-07 18:06:46 UTC
The idea is not that everyone should mine but that the EVE world behaves like an economy or perhaps I'll use the word "ecosystem".

The game is designed to have players activity depend on other players activity. Some players will play mutiple parts of the game but by making so many feautures it's likely that people will specialize. Some people make fuel, some people run research faciilties, some extract raw materials, some kill npcs, so engage in various types of trade from making a market in a station to hauling items and reselling them at mini hubs for a profit margin. Some players kill ships and structures to give others things that need to be built over and over again an distributed.


The idea isn't that you should mine but that you should find things to specialize in and interact with other players either directly or from buying things at the offered buy price on the markets

.
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#14 - 2012-05-07 18:11:11 UTC
It made absolutely no sense that a mission runner is able to yield more minerals and compete against a solo miner just by killing npc ships while undercutting manufacturers with meta zero items harvested from wrecks.

Adapt or Die
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-05-07 18:13:15 UTC
It's pretty simple: you have an entire eve profession involving skills and ships that was vastly underused. By tweaking some dials on the economy machine, you suddenly reopen already existing content to a far greater numbers of players.

It's smart business, that's why they did it.
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-05-07 18:13:30 UTC
Diomedes Calypso wrote:
The idea is not that everyone should mine but that the EVE world behaves like an economy or perhaps I'll use the word "ecosystem".

The game is designed to have players activity depend on other players activity. Some players will play mutiple parts of the game but by making so many feautures it's likely that people will specialize.


ok, great but how ecosystem where hulks get ore is superior than a n ecosystem where ravens do the same?

Or is it just "hey I think ore should come from hulks so go **** yourself everybody else .i. "?

Esan Vartesa wrote:
Is this yet another "I don't like mining so I think everyone should stop doing it!" thread.

Yes, yes it is. My reply? Suck my donkey balls.

Why do you even own donkey balls?
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#17 - 2012-05-07 18:14:21 UTC
Balthisus Filtch wrote:
Well mining is put forward by the developers as a career choice in EVE.

Mining was yielding the worst hourly earnings of any profession. The reason was that the produce of mining was being made available too readily via several other routes.

Now, should mining be a profession in EVE - I don't know the answer it is hellishly boring and a route for botting. That is really another argument entirely though.

But given that CCP clearly do take it seriously as a profession / element of game play the recent updates make a lot of sense and were very logical changes to make to improve the value of mining/miners.



Yes.

Back when a corp I was in had 'mandatory mining ops' I refused. I have mining I and I stare at it hatefully because I started with it. I wish I could delete that skill!

So, I would mission while the OP was going on and salvage the missions/ reprocess the loot and give the minerals to the corp. The CEO was amazed because the minerals I donated was greater than the equivalent share of the miners...plus I got salvage, mission rewards, bounties and LP.

Makes sense what CCP is doing. Weirdly enough, some people like to mine...and they should get rewarded for it instead of having the worst income in Eve.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#18 - 2012-05-07 18:14:47 UTC
Tub Chil wrote:
Everyone else? Seriously?

now longer part:

It is well known that CCP raged hard about "mining with guns baad" "reprocessing baad" and did things that we know they did. result is easily seen on market, tier 3 SB hull costs as much as fully fitted and rigged fleet BS cost just few months ago.

I want a valid reason why minerals should come from mining only and how game gets better from it.
Because in my opinion any tweak/fix should be done for the game and not group of players.

Now, I would have absolutely nothing against mining, but there is a thing that I just can't get out of my sight. it's the fact that mining is horribly bad, boring and mind scratching activity. I have never seen a game mechanic in any game that would be equally bad. you basically warp to belt, ctrl+click an object and activate lasers. and that's it, then you just sit there for 2 hours.or more.

splendid

I mean PVE in eve doesn't shine either but it is many miles ahead from mining.
So why should PVE be discouraged and mining encouraged?
How will overall game experience improve if today's lvl4 runner will mine trit?


Discuss


And yet according to CCP gathered data from the playerbase, mining is somewhat liked or very much liked by more than half the players.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/sukihibbs/Player_likes.png

As so many players like mining, CCP saw fit to make it a more relevant part of the game.

This is all much easier to understand if you assume other people have likes and dislikes that are different from your own.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#19 - 2012-05-07 18:15:45 UTC
Tub Chil wrote:
Esan Vartesa wrote:
Is this yet another "I don't like mining so I think everyone should stop doing it!" thread.

Yes, yes it is. My reply? Suck my donkey balls.

Why do you even own donkey balls?

NeX shop I guess.

Thanks Incarna

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Aron Croup
Incompatible Protocol
#20 - 2012-05-07 18:17:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Aron Croup
Nylith Empyreal wrote:
Well, some ask for a more active way of mining, those who supposedly mine(while constantly staring at the screen), say no to such ideas.

However, it being a proff like every other activity in eve deserves courtesy circle jerks as well.

I think it's mental, but w/e.


To be honest I think the vast majority of EVE miners (who aren't botting) would welcome a more fun game mechanic for mining. i agree that it can be mind-boggelingly boring if you do it on your own.

The fun comes from being in a mining corp, shooting the breeze with your mates on teamspeak and perhaps a few beers. It's a social activity more than anything else.

My suggestion is pretty simple, and would actually be feasible once they introduce the new asteroid breaking mechanic at some point in the future, and that would be that certain parts of the asteroid contain more ore than others, and by using the mining laser you can break these parts off the roid, fly over and scoop them into your ship and process it to pure ore, whilst ejecting the general asteroid material into space.

This mechanic would then require you to use survey scanners on each asteroid to locate the best places to 'drill', and it would require your mining ship to move around to pick up the ore that breaks off. It would also introduce a new mechanic for ore thieves, as they could get in and steal broken off asteroid chunks before they are claimed by anyone, and thus avoid criminal flagging.

[Edit]:

Similarly, I would love to see salvaging becoming more involved like this. Instead of just click one button it would be awesome with a mechanic where you'd have to actually examine the wreck to find the interesting and salvageable parts.
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