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Eve turning into UO?

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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#21 - 2012-05-07 08:48:08 UTC
Degren wrote:
I don't see it. No one is invulnerable and I don't think they ever will be.

Graic Gabtar wrote:
Can someone explain what the **** you are talking about so we can start trolling?


Ultima Online was the first sandbox. Housing, PKs, full loot, all that good ****. The economy was extremely well balanced, pvp was frenetic, twitchy and had an extremely high skill cap. You could steal from people, poison them, etc.

Then Trammel came. It split the world in to two halves. One half was the way it was before, the other half was pvp-free. If you stayed in the old world, you got double the resources you did in the new one, but at the same usual risk. In the new world, there was quite literally zero risk, so the economy got completely ****** and inflated. Everyone went mob-killing (ratting) in the best gear (deadspace) instead of basic blacksmithed (t2) gear, no one cared about ore/minerals anymore, etc, etc.

It was the deathknell for UO. Subscriptions dropped off massively and it never recovered. The game is god awful now, but a carebears absolutely sweetest heaven, full of opportunities for massive gold-accumulation and nothing to spend it on.



Thats exacly what carebears want to do in EvE Cry

The Tears Must Flow
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#22 - 2012-05-07 08:52:19 UTC
UO is the prime example on what NOT to do with a sandbox game.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-05-07 09:03:54 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
I sincerely hope not, but carebears are indeed the MMO cancer, they ruined UO (and every other good MMO in the market, see SWG).



just curious how did care bears ruin swg ? i always thought sony is what killed swg .
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#24 - 2012-05-07 09:09:49 UTC
Sri Nova wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
I sincerely hope not, but carebears are indeed the MMO cancer, they ruined UO (and every other good MMO in the market, see SWG).



just curious how did care bears ruin swg ? i always thought sony is what killed swg .


SWG made a lot of changes to simplify the game for what is generally considered carebears, which caused its downfall.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Vain Eldritch
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2012-05-07 09:18:58 UTC
Degren wrote:
High sec is Britain pre-trammel.

Commit a crime and you'll get guard whacked, but you can do some damage before its over.


Accurate.

Also: Scorch = Corp Por; Conflag = Vas Flam; Radio = An Flam; Mutifrq = In Nox.

So not like UO at all... :)

Androgynous Caldari Cross-dresser
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-05-07 10:11:51 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Sri Nova wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
I sincerely hope not, but carebears are indeed the MMO cancer, they ruined UO (and every other good MMO in the market, see SWG).



just curious how did care bears ruin swg ? i always thought sony is what killed swg .


SWG made a lot of changes to simplify the game for what is generally considered carebears, which caused its downfall.

Not just simplify, themeparkize. Not that it was good to begin with, but it was far worse after they caved and WoWified it.
Kale Kold
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-05-07 13:47:04 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
I sincerely hope not, but carebears are indeed the MMO cancer, they ruined UO (and every other good MMO in the market, see SWG).

This!!!

If any game designer listens to carebears the mmo dies!

UO:
Carebears whined about getting killed in the unsafe areas so Trammel opened without pvp and everyone left Felluca. The game didn't then have any risk and so no challenge, subs dropped and it died.

SWG:
Carebears wanted to be a jedi and couldn't be bothered to grind, pvp or explore. Holocrons were issued as a 'gift', Now everybody wanted to be a jedi. Then you *had* to be a jedi to compete in PvP so the NGE was released. This removed most classes and skills, over simplifying the game and gave everyone the option to start as a jedi. The challenge was removed, subs dropped and the game died.

DAoC
Rogue characters could be invisible on the battlefields, but had to uncloak to attack. Carebears fed up of being killed, even though they new the frontiers were not safe started whining. So they nerfed stealth so you couldn't be invisible and over night masses of characters lost their role and reason for being there. Subs started declining because you couldn't now get any intel and the only option was to zerg, leading to massive stand offs for hours at a time. There was no fear or challenge to the frontiers only blobs. The game become boring and the whole reason of the game PvP (realm combat) was ruined.

All games that come pre-nerfed to be carebear friendly always fail because there is simply no challenge,

Dungeons and Dragons
Warhammer Online
Tabula Rasa
Final Fantasy XIV
Age of Conan
Star Wars The Old Republic

It just goes on and on. For any online game to succeed there has to be fear, challenge and loss and the satisfaction you get when you beat those and triumph!!!

“Some people call me insane for the destruction I’ve caused, ...I believe I was just doing my duty!” -- Testimony submitted to Caldari Navy war crimes tribunal.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-05-07 13:48:50 UTC
Waiting for "Thread locked for no content.".

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Acquisitioneer
Phantom Division
#29 - 2012-05-07 13:52:47 UTC
I don't see people going "OOoooOOoo" after getting suicide ganked in highsec. X
Joe Skellington
Sarz'na Khumatari
#30 - 2012-05-07 13:58:39 UTC
Graic Gabtar wrote:
Joran Dravius wrote:
Graic Gabtar wrote:
Can someone explain what the **** you are talking about so we can start trolling?

Try being older than 12. Then you'll have heard of it.
Give me a break, I mean what does it have to do with EVE.

I was playing UO, when it was only U and on a C64.


That and an Apple IIs for me. My favorite was Ultima 7 and 7.5 Serpent Isle. Though I had fun playing Ultima 6 with no harddrive on a Tandy 1000 swapping disks when ever I entered town.

Please note that ASCII art is not permitted in the forum signatures. Spitfire
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-05-07 14:03:22 UTC
Kale Kold wrote:

All games that come pre-nerfed to be carebear friendly always fail because there is simply no challenge,



Which clearly explains the utter failure of WoW.


I suggest your analysis may be incomplete.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#32 - 2012-05-07 14:12:10 UTC
Ask ccp greyscale about turning highsec into trammel with his new crimewatch system.
clixor
Celluloid Gurus
#33 - 2012-05-07 14:15:14 UTC
As PVP in general is so freakking exciting. Gate camping for hours on end only to be blobbed to death.
Twulf
Purple Void Corporation
LinkNet
#34 - 2012-05-07 14:20:28 UTC
Sri Nova wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
I sincerely hope not, but carebears are indeed the MMO cancer, they ruined UO (and every other good MMO in the market, see SWG).



just curious how did care bears ruin swg ? i always thought sony is what killed swg .


Sony had nothing to do with it. The owner of Star Wars demanded that Sony change the game to be more like WOW because they wanted WOW like numbers instead of the numbers SWG had. It got blamed on Sony because gamers are stupid and never see the truth.

UO was a fun game but EQ was better, the PVP servers were amazing and fun and not safe even in cities.
Twulf
Purple Void Corporation
LinkNet
#35 - 2012-05-07 14:24:03 UTC
Kale Kold wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
I sincerely hope not, but carebears are indeed the MMO cancer, they ruined UO (and every other good MMO in the market, see SWG).

This!!!

If any game designer listens to carebears the mmo dies!

UO:
Carebears whined about getting killed in the unsafe areas so Trammel opened without pvp and everyone left Felluca. The game didn't then have any risk and so no challenge, subs dropped and it died.

SWG:
Carebears wanted to be a jedi and couldn't be bothered to grind, pvp or explore. Holocrons were issued as a 'gift', Now everybody wanted to be a jedi. Then you *had* to be a jedi to compete in PvP so the NGE was released. This removed most classes and skills, over simplifying the game and gave everyone the option to start as a jedi. The challenge was removed, subs dropped and the game died.

DAoC
Rogue characters could be invisible on the battlefields, but had to uncloak to attack. Carebears fed up of being killed, even though they new the frontiers were not safe started whining. So they nerfed stealth so you couldn't be invisible and over night masses of characters lost their role and reason for being there. Subs started declining because you couldn't now get any intel and the only option was to zerg, leading to massive stand offs for hours at a time. There was no fear or challenge to the frontiers only blobs. The game become boring and the whole reason of the game PvP (realm combat) was ruined.

All games that come pre-nerfed to be carebear friendly always fail because there is simply no challenge,

Dungeons and Dragons
Warhammer Online
Tabula Rasa
Final Fantasy XIV
Age of Conan
Star Wars The Old Republic

It just goes on and on. For any online game to succeed there has to be fear, challenge and loss and the satisfaction you get when you beat those and triumph!!!


Depends on what you call fail. WOW has no fear, no challenge and no loss and yet it makes way more money then EVE could ever hope to make and has more subs then CCP could ever dream up having. So to Blizzard and the other 11 million people WOW is anything but a failure but hey lets not let facts get in your way. Rant away with your nonsense and poor logic.
Joe Skellington
Sarz'na Khumatari
#36 - 2012-05-07 14:30:13 UTC
Twulf wrote:

Depends on what you call fail. WOW has no fear, no challenge and no loss and yet it makes way more money then EVE could ever hope to make and has more subs then CCP could ever dream up having. So to Blizzard and the other 11 million people WOW is anything but a failure but hey lets not let facts get in your way. Rant away with your nonsense and poor logic.


Oh god, wow started failing hard when Activision took the helm, you were right pre-Lichking. As it stands now, wow is losing subs left and right. Blizzard even made it free to play up to level 20 because it's getting so bad. Their online store is selling in-game pets like no tomorrow.

Please note that ASCII art is not permitted in the forum signatures. Spitfire
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-05-07 14:33:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Graic Gabtar wrote:
I was playing UO, when it was only U and on a C64.

Forum Quote/Post fail...

High 5's for the old guys!
Kale Kold wrote:
It just goes on and on. For any online game to succeed there has to be fear, challenge and loss and the satisfaction you get when you beat those and triumph!!!

You forgot PotBS...

One US server (load light to medium during prime time) and one Euro server . . . down from 15...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Dessau
The Scope
#38 - 2012-05-07 14:34:28 UTC
This thread warmed my heart.

Vendor buy the bank some guards!
Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-05-07 14:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jon Taggart
Kehro Urgus wrote:
*corp por*


*Kal Vas Flam*

Kale Kold wrote:
I sincerely hope not, but carebears are indeed the MMO cancer, they ruined UO (and every other good MMO in the market, see SWG).
This!!!

If any game designer listens to carebears the mmo dies!

UO:
Carebears whined about getting killed in the unsafe areas so Trammel opened without pvp and everyone left Felluca. The game didn't then have any risk and so no challenge, subs dropped and it died.


On the contrary, UO experienced a subscription boom when Trammel was released. People now had the choice to engage in PVP when they wanted to. There was still plenty of risk and challenge to be had and there were still a lot of people running around Felluca. You could also loot people in Trammel back in those days. This gave rise to iconic characters such as Crazy Joe and Belan the Looter. I made quite a name for myself as a disarm thief on the Felluca side of the Atlantic shard and it was a ton of fun.

Age of Shadows is what killed it. Not Second Age (Trammel). Complete change in design philosophy. The inclusion of insurance and the pixel crack addiction that came with it killed our precious UO.
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#40 - 2012-05-07 15:00:37 UTC
While I definitely agree with the OP, it isn't quite as easy as having a free for all.

If newbies join and are getting whacked constantly by experienced players as they are trying to learn the game, they will quit. So, some sort of newbie area but it can be very limited.

Having 'industrial' characters being preyed on by 'pirates' is great...but if there are too many pirates instead of industrials then that won't work. Therefore, going an 'industrial' route needs to pay substantially more than a 'pirate' route. There also can be no safe areas for experienced characters to pursue and industrial strategy to fund their pirate toon.

There needs to be regular turnover of the powers-that-be. Games can stagnate if one or a few power blocks control the resources.