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DPS (Nightmare) or Logi (Basilisk) for Incursions
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Hallinix
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-04-29 17:56:54 UTC
Greetings,

I'm trying to figure out if I would be better off going for a Nightmare or Basilisk for getting into incursions. My current skills are as follows: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Hallinix

As things are now I could get into a Nightmare, but my gunnery skills will need some love and I'm approximately 60days away from having T2 guns. I know that T2 guns would benefit me a lot in incursions, however would I be able to do all right without them - perhaps turning to faction guns? I would also have to work on my Amarr BS skills, but it would just be 5days to get it to IV - which would do for a start.

For the Basilisk, I'm 32days or so away from getting into it plus another 5days to get Logistics IV. I think my support skills for the Basilisk are somewhat better than for the Nightmare, and that once I would have Logistics IV I would be all right skill wise to do the job in incursions (please tell me if I'm completely off on this one!?).

So taking into account that it doesn't matter to me whether I would be flying DPS or Logistics, and that I would prefer the role that will be the most sought after / needed and easiest to get into incursions with, then what should I choose between the two? Any suggestions on what skills I should have and at what level to be able to function properly in incursions would be very helpful.

Furthermore, I've also tried to do some price comparisons between them and came up with approximately 1400 millions for the Nightmare, and just below 300 for the Basilisk, so on this front it looks like the Basilisk is quite a better choice? I'm wondering if I'm missing something like increased loss of ships for logistics that would skew the price/investment part more in favor of the Nightmare?

Thanks for taking the time to read all this =)
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#2 - 2012-04-30 08:23:43 UTC
Logis are more wanted for incursions as no matter what site it is, everyone needs a logi. In the meantime. I'm not sure, your gunnery skills are pretty bad as of now, but they can be decent with all IVs in a little time, missile ships aren't really wanted in Incursions so I guess you should run with something like an Apoc with Meta 4 guns. Or you could skip all that and go straight for Basi, which I reccommend.
Vito Antonio
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-04-30 08:51:46 UTC
Training for logistics is much much faster than training for a decent nightmare.
And healers are always demanded in mmos. So if you can stand healing - go for it.
Daleth Prem
Holy Cookie
#4 - 2012-04-30 17:18:43 UTC
looking at your gunnery skills, definately go logi, after logi V you could look at getting your gunnery skills up, but please do not pilot a nightmare until you can use t2 tachyons/pulses + a lot of support skills.
Lady Aja
#5 - 2012-05-03 00:25:23 UTC
go logi. they are always in demand and less butthurt when you loose it. not if but WHEN!
where is my ability to link a sig properly CCP you munters!!
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-05-05 09:33:30 UTC
Didn't they just nerf incursions to the point where you're better off doing lvl 4s?

I've been in systems where there were excesses of logis, and nothing short of T2 gunned pirate BSs and people with logi V were getting into fleets.
Having your logi skill at lvl 3 is not going to get you a lot of fleets.

A mediocre fleet would be happy to get a nightmare, even with meta4 guns.
A shiny fleet will note that at 60km, you do half the DPS with meta4 guns than you do with T2 scorch, and they will pass you over.
Col Arran
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-05-07 01:06:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Col Arran
Go either one, I'm going to guess that no one who has posted here has ever run with a TVP FC before or they wouldn't give you completely misleading information. I'm coming from an HQ perspective as I can't stand running VGs.

1: FCs frankly don't give a **** what guns you fit as long as they're Meta 4
2: Neither Logi nor DPS get into HQ fleets faster we always fill fleets in a matter of minutes
3: No one cares about your gunnery skills, no one is going to check your gunnery skills and no one cares how much DPS you do.
4: No one cares what ship you fly, we've had fleets with Drakes before in a TCRC


Train for whatever you want it doesn't matter, if you have the ISK for a nightmare train it and buy it. If not buy either a Caldari BS or an Amarr BS and run incursions for about 2 days then go buy a Nightmare.

TVP (The Valhalla Project) uses only shield tanking ships and TDF (The Ditanian Fleet) is all armor fleets. TVP is the largest HQ/AS incursion community so I would recommend shield tanking your ship and going with them, also everyone knows shield tankers get more ISK/hr than armor runners.
Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-05-07 05:42:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Katsuko
It looks like you're much closer to a Basilisk than to a Nightmare, at least skill-wise. Your Gunnery skills are currently abysmal. At minimum, your Gunnery support skills should be at IV or V. You're actually very close to being able to fly a Tengu well.

You absolutely must have Logistics IV, Energy Emissions IV, and Shield Emissions IV to fly a Basilisk. Else you will not be cap stable and will get your fleet killed. Ideally you should have Logistics V, since that way when one of your cap buddies explodes or screws up, you won't cap out while the cap chain adjusts. Shiny Vanguard fleets use 5/1 Basilisks, which require Logistics V. I've yet to lose a Basilisk in an incursion site, but so far I've only run Vanguard and Assault sites; the loss rate among Logistics ships in HQ and Mothership sites may be higher.

That said, I've seen cases where there are a lot of Logistics and a shortage of DPS ships, and cases where there is a shortage of Logistics and too many DPS ships. I wouldn't say that there is necessarily an overall shortage of Logistics ships. Rather, there is a shortage of Logistics ships some of the time.

No-one is going to check your skills: whether or not you have sufficient skills will generally be apparent from your fittings. Usually having meta-4 guns will not be a huge liability, since Meta-4 and Tech-2 guns have very similar damage output when using short-range ammo. I wouldn't bother investing in faction guns; Tech-2 will still be better overall, and will not make you a bigger suicide gank target.
Velarra
#9 - 2012-05-07 06:43:50 UTC
Alice Katsuko wrote:
You absolutely must have Logistics IV, Energy Emissions IV, and Shield Emissions IV to fly a Basilisk. Else you will not be cap stable and will get your fleet killed. Ideally you should have Logistics V, since that way when one of your cap buddies explodes or screws up, you won't cap out while the cap chain adjusts.

No-one is going to check your skills: whether or not you have sufficient skills will generally be apparent from your fittings.


I'd likewise echo that the support skills at IV or V really are just as important as the logi IV / V.

With regard to skills, it can be helpful or at least reassuring to your fleet if you are willing to share your logistics specific & core skill certificates on request.