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Soundwave, a challenge for you
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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#101 - 2012-05-05 16:11:33 UTC
Faith Patrouette wrote:
people dont go to low and null to pve.


How did you arrive at this conclusion?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#102 - 2012-05-05 16:13:59 UTC
Faith Patrouette wrote:
Darth Tickles wrote:
[quote=Faith Patrouette]
The base level gameplay of undocking by yourself or with a few friends to shoot rats or roids and make a few bucks has to be significantly more lucrative in low, null, and whs. That's it. End of story. Moons are about organizational incentives and large scale conflict driving, but absolutely meaningless without that base level of balance.



mining is already more lucrative in null..
ratting is just as if not more lucrative then missioning (and yes i tested this with an alt in a crappy nullsec spot. it made me more money then the other char doing missions)
Incursions are more lucrative in null sec
PI is a lot more lucrative in null sec
While in some alliences players may not see much money off the moons, they do generate a large amount of income allience wise, and thus in most cases, ship replacement wise.
Add to that anomalies and such.

So these things are more lucrative in null (not sure about low ) except those people going to null mostly go there to pewpew, and not to mine, or for the pve content.
Thus I fail to see why nerfing the pve content in high sec will change this.





Because highsec Is still far more convenient to live in with only slightly lower rewards.

I did live in nullsec and yes - it was quite safe. However, the additional hassle to check intel channels, avoiding drag bubbles or doing logistics whenever I want to buy something plus the risk of losing all my assets because I go inactive for a month just to find my alliances space having been taken over just wasn't worth it.

I'd like to live in nullsec again, but aside fixing the terribly blobby sov mechanics, nullsec income/h needs to be 10x that of high to make dealing with all the little nuisances associated with living there. As there already is too much influx of isk, I'd say highsec income should be nerfed rather than buffing null income.

Now what did all that have to do with datacores? I have no idea.
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#103 - 2012-05-05 16:24:20 UTC
Name Family Name wrote:
Now what did all that have to do with datacores? I have no idea.


Because datacore generation is being made accessible through lowsec faction warfare..or something.

This thread, however, seems to be an attempt at a debate over whether incentives need to be balanced at all, not the specific mechanics thereof. Unfortunately for one side of the debate, the big picture has already been decided, for better or worse, and all that's truly still "open" to debate is the particulars.

It is also too bad that actually valuable input about said particulars from affected parties will almost assuredly be drowned out by the conspiracy-fueled bleating of trolls and mentally unbalanced forum sockpuppets.
Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#104 - 2012-05-05 16:27:50 UTC
Joran Dravius wrote:
Polly Oxford wrote:

Why are you pubbies outraged about this years after he joined CCP? Also good job insinuating that he leaks stuff to us although you have zero proof.

You guys are the new BoB, so why wouldn't Soundwave be the new t20? Not saying that's the case, but after CCP's history it wouldn't surprise me. You can't really blame people for suspecting it.


Most people here treat it as fact with absolutely no proof whatsoever. Everyone claims that the new mechanics are somehow good for us, while in reality we couldn't care less. Nobody gives a **** if we are wardecced or not. Everyone has a Jita alt anyway and hauling is done 100% by alt corps that are definitely not wardecced.
And the RP nerf or whatever you call it is also completely inconsequential to us. We won't start going to some lowsec system to do missions, when we could just as well do an anomaly in Deklein.
The changes don't impact us at all, but people claim Stoffer is doing all this for our benefit. And since he has done a whole lot of good for Eve as a whole, this is actually something I can get mad over. Accusing people of a 'crime' with absolutely no proof is just ********.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#105 - 2012-05-05 16:54:40 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Andski wrote:
okay what makes wormholes a more attractive option to risk-averse hiseccers than nullsec

WH's aren't all claimed, no intel networks, everyone works under the same rules (no hot-drops/super caps) [excepting those that occupy class 5/6 space - who are more than willing to take those risks], more "unknown" feel, ability to freely set up and take down shop at will, ability to roam at will, ability to make "enough" isk to cover expected losses, ability to "change" system every day (or several times a day) and non-static routes in and out. Oh, and sleepers...

Biggest "advantage" (which is really not an "advantage" per se - but a function of mechanics) is Worm Holes limit mass and time. Anyone can figure out how to tell how much mass/time (within a small margin) is left on a WH, and can either crash it behind them or go back out.

Also (just thought of this) you can base out of a ship and raid empty null sec/ low sec systems with almost impunity. Most of the time when we've dropped out into claimed 0.0, the locals don't seem interested in chasing us back up the chain... Pirate
Edit to add: Also (not to put *too* fine a point on it) - there are many people who play in hi-sec that don't like the reputation (fairly or unfairly given) that null sec'ers seem to have cultivated over the last few years.

Andski wrote:
Nick Bison wrote:
Umm ...
- they don't have to deal with crappy sov mechanics
- they don't have to deal with super-blobs
- smaller groups actually have a chance to make something of their own


and then they find out that there are no NPCs to bail them out outside of hisec

So Andski, was there anything in particular you were looking for, or just trolling?

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#106 - 2012-05-05 22:49:34 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Andski wrote:
okay what makes wormholes a more attractive option to risk-averse hiseccers than nullsec

WH's aren't all claimed, no intel networks, everyone works under the same rules (no hot-drops/super caps) [excepting those that occupy class 5/6 space - who are more than willing to take those risks], more "unknown" feel, ability to freely set up and take down shop at will, ability to roam at will, ability to make "enough" isk to cover expected losses, ability to "change" system every day (or several times a day) and non-static routes in and out. Oh, and sleepers...

Biggest "advantage" (which is really not an "advantage" per se - but a function of mechanics) is Worm Holes limit mass and time. Anyone can figure out how to tell how much mass/time (within a small margin) is left on a WH, and can either crash it behind them or go back out.

Also (just thought of this) you can base out of a ship and raid empty null sec/ low sec systems with almost impunity. Most of the time when we've dropped out into claimed 0.0, the locals don't seem interested in chasing us back up the chain... Pirate
Edit to add: Also (not to put *too* fine a point on it) - there are many people who play in hi-sec that don't like the reputation (fairly or unfairly given) that null sec'ers seem to have cultivated over the last few years.

Andski wrote:
Nick Bison wrote:
Umm ...
- they don't have to deal with crappy sov mechanics
- they don't have to deal with super-blobs
- smaller groups actually have a chance to make something of their own


and then they find out that there are no NPCs to bail them out outside of hisec

So Andski, was there anything in particular you were looking for, or just trolling?


Id guess just trollin since Goons dont seem to get banned for it like the rest of us

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#107 - 2012-05-06 00:00:45 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Id guess just trollin since Goons dont seem to get banned for it like the rest of us

Nah, Andski is usually pretty cool. He asked a question and I just wondered where he was going to go with it.


Wormhole population is (as of Dr. E's lecture at 2012 Fan Fest) 5.4% of the population - this is 5.4% (some of whom) might have gone out to 0.0 had there not been any WH space to move into - it's interesting to note as well, that Dr. E says WH's are where some 0.0 denizens are moving to.

So WH's are probably siphoning off a pretty decent % of people who might otherwise have gone to 0.0...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-05-07 00:54:47 UTC
I hate it that he just left me hanging....Ugh

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#109 - 2012-05-07 01:08:01 UTC
Polly Oxford wrote:
Joran Dravius wrote:
Polly Oxford wrote:

Why are you pubbies outraged about this years after he joined CCP? Also good job insinuating that he leaks stuff to us although you have zero proof.

You guys are the new BoB, so why wouldn't Soundwave be the new t20? Not saying that's the case, but after CCP's history it wouldn't surprise me. You can't really blame people for suspecting it.


Most people here treat it as fact with absolutely no proof whatsoever. Everyone claims that the new mechanics are somehow good for us, while in reality we couldn't care less. Nobody gives a **** if we are wardecced or not. Everyone has a Jita alt anyway and hauling is done 100% by alt corps that are definitely not wardecced.
And the RP nerf or whatever you call it is also completely inconsequential to us. We won't start going to some lowsec system to do missions, when we could just as well do an anomaly in Deklein.
The changes don't impact us at all, but people claim Stoffer is doing all this for our benefit. And since he has done a whole lot of good for Eve as a whole, this is actually something I can get mad over. Accusing people of a 'crime' with absolutely no proof is just ********.

Goons, and anyone that might possibly have been maybe associated with goons - guilty. Always.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vince Snetterton
#110 - 2012-05-07 01:28:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Vince Snetterton
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Polly Oxford wrote:
Joran Dravius wrote:
Polly Oxford wrote:

Why are you pubbies outraged about this years after he joined CCP? Also good job insinuating that he leaks stuff to us although you have zero proof.

You guys are the new BoB, so why wouldn't Soundwave be the new t20? Not saying that's the case, but after CCP's history it wouldn't surprise me. You can't really blame people for suspecting it.


Most people here treat it as fact with absolutely no proof whatsoever. Everyone claims that the new mechanics are somehow good for us, while in reality we couldn't care less. Nobody gives a **** if we are wardecced or not. Everyone has a Jita alt anyway and hauling is done 100% by alt corps that are definitely not wardecced.
And the RP nerf or whatever you call it is also completely inconsequential to us. We won't start going to some lowsec system to do missions, when we could just as well do an anomaly in Deklein.
The changes don't impact us at all, but people claim Stoffer is doing all this for our benefit. And since he has done a whole lot of good for Eve as a whole, this is actually something I can get mad over. Accusing people of a 'crime' with absolutely no proof is just ********.

Goons, and anyone that might possibly have been maybe associated with goons - guilty. Always.


Never said the datacore farming directly improves the finances of goons. But it does do a few things for you:

1. Drives more people into low sec, which gives you more targets. Since you have no targets your but blue buddies like Test left, low sec targets are good for you.
2. Drives an extremely small people into null sec, since there were probably a handful on the fence and this may be a tipping point. That is one of your ultimate goals, more people in null to attack or ally with.
3. The biggest one: less income in high sec, and more tears from high sec industrialists. And you thrive on the misery of others.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#111 - 2012-05-07 01:33:06 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Polly Oxford wrote:
Joran Dravius wrote:
Polly Oxford wrote:

Why are you pubbies outraged about this years after he joined CCP? Also good job insinuating that he leaks stuff to us although you have zero proof.

You guys are the new BoB, so why wouldn't Soundwave be the new t20? Not saying that's the case, but after CCP's history it wouldn't surprise me. You can't really blame people for suspecting it.


Most people here treat it as fact with absolutely no proof whatsoever. Everyone claims that the new mechanics are somehow good for us, while in reality we couldn't care less. Nobody gives a **** if we are wardecced or not. Everyone has a Jita alt anyway and hauling is done 100% by alt corps that are definitely not wardecced.
And the RP nerf or whatever you call it is also completely inconsequential to us. We won't start going to some lowsec system to do missions, when we could just as well do an anomaly in Deklein.
The changes don't impact us at all, but people claim Stoffer is doing all this for our benefit. And since he has done a whole lot of good for Eve as a whole, this is actually something I can get mad over. Accusing people of a 'crime' with absolutely no proof is just ********.

Goons, and anyone that might possibly have been maybe associated with goons - guilty. Always.


Never said the datacore farming directly improves the finances of goons. But it does do a few things for you:

1. Drives more people into low sec, which gives you more targets. Since you have no targets your but blue buddies like Test left, low sec targets are good for you.
2. Drives an extremely small people into null sec, since there were probably a handful on the fence and this may be a tipping point. That is one of your ultimate goals, more people in null to attack or ally with.
3. The biggest one: less income in high sec, and more tears from high sec industrialists. And you thrive on the misery of others.


I don't know where you get this idea that we love the misery of others.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#112 - 2012-05-07 01:40:45 UTC
I thoroughly enjoy the misery of bleating hisec forum warriors with a questionable grasp on reality.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#113 - 2012-05-07 02:16:58 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
I thoroughly enjoy the misery of bleating hisec forum warriors with a questionable grasp on reality.

Lets be honest here. If they were crying because of an accurate perception of reality, would the tears be less enjoyable for you?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#114 - 2012-05-07 02:22:01 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lets be honest here. If they were crying because of an accurate perception of reality, would the tears be less enjoyable for you?


Absolutely. The entitlement-induced irrationality is what sells it. Otherwise it's just someone with a valid and rational complaint. Boring.
Vince Snetterton
#115 - 2012-05-09 00:23:52 UTC
So Soundwave, looks like you are a liar.

No response to my suggestion about how to remove all passivity from datacore farming.
It as I expected, this obliteration of the existing mechanic is just another attack on high sec, NOT an removal of a passive income flow.

Man, you make the failed lawyer look like a 2 week old ganker in a noob ship, when you compare the amount of damage the two of you inflict on the players.

And the failed lawyer is not even in the same league when it comes to hammering the subscription rate.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#116 - 2012-05-09 00:27:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigurd Sig Hansen
Guttripper wrote:
If the old memory is still working, didn't Soundwave:

- Despise the Learning skill tree and get it removed?

- Considered agents of different aspects (advisory, courier, mining, security, etc.) and their quality system to be quite confusing and had it simplified?

- Apparently during this last sausage fest, one of the female CCP employees pointed out some high sec players in attendance and he became irate?

- Now wants to alter the data core system into something from a lore point of view makes no sense?

One man altering machine at CCP - whatever he wants, he gets so seems pointless to debate anything.


Yeah funny how that one man altering machine was a part of the biggest 0.0 alliance in the game....

Joran Dravius wrote:
Polly Oxford wrote:

Why are you pubbies outraged about this years after he joined CCP? Also good job insinuating that he leaks stuff to us although you have zero proof.

You guys are the new BoB, so why wouldn't Soundwave be the new t20? Not saying that's the case, but after CCP's history it wouldn't surprise me. You can't really blame people for suspecting it.


Explains why they want ppl to forget it so much

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Frank Truck
ACME Mineral and Gas
#117 - 2012-05-09 00:28:48 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
...
Oh, and also for those that don't know, Soundwave was, and most likely still is, goons.
Below is the youtube link of him doing a goon presentation at Fanfest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1sdTzj9iac




Point to the spot on the doll where the bad goon....
Vince Snetterton
#118 - 2012-05-09 00:30:11 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Guttripper wrote:
If the old memory is still working, didn't Soundwave:

- Despise the Learning skill tree and get it removed?

- Considered agents of different aspects (advisory, courier, mining, security, etc.) and their quality system to be quite confusing and had it simplified?

- Apparently during this last sausage fest, one of the female CCP employees pointed out some high sec players in attendance and he became irate?

- Now wants to alter the data core system into something from a lore point of view makes no sense?

One man altering machine at CCP - whatever he wants, he gets so seems pointless to debate anything.


Yeah funny how that one man altering machine was a part of the biggest 0.0 alliance in the game....

Joran Dravius wrote:
Polly Oxford wrote:

Why are you pubbies outraged about this years after he joined CCP? Also good job insinuating that he leaks stuff to us although you have zero proof.

You guys are the new BoB, so why wouldn't Soundwave be the new t20? Not saying that's the case, but after CCP's history it wouldn't surprise me. You can't really blame people for suspecting it.


Explains why they want ppl to forget it so much


Not just a part of it, a key member, doing presentations at Fanfest.
I am certain he gave up an important role in goons, and completely left any bias he had for them at the door when CCP hired him.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#119 - 2012-05-09 00:31:27 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
So Soundwave, looks like you are a liar.

No response to my suggestion about how to remove all passivity from datacore farming.
It as I expected, this obliteration of the existing mechanic is just another attack on high sec, NOT an removal of a passive income flow.

Just do whatever random idiot on the forum says otherwise you're a hypocrite !

Ahahahaha, that's bloody rich. Now make another thread about, oh.... lets see.

Warp to Zero?
Removing Local?
Nerfing Tech?


What else, what else? Oh right:

Banning all goons.


That'll do it !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#120 - 2012-05-09 00:31:56 UTC
Frank Truck wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
...
Oh, and also for those that don't know, Soundwave was, and most likely still is, goons.
Below is the youtube link of him doing a goon presentation at Fanfest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1sdTzj9iac

Point to the spot on the doll where the bad goon....

In the "carebear" heh heh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?