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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Exhumers need a serious buff.
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Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#81 - 2012-05-06 20:07:27 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Hortense Sledgemallet wrote:

I fail to see how PVP needs to be in every aspect of the game.



But it is and always has been. This is a PVP game.

Except, it's not a PVP game, regardless of the amount of awesome wtfbbq PVP, it's not a PVP game. Call of Duty is a PVP game.

EVE has wondrous things beyond simple PVP. Calling a game a PVP game without it having nothing significant but PVP is kind of... wrong?

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2012-05-06 21:24:49 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Hortense Sledgemallet wrote:

I fail to see how PVP needs to be in every aspect of the game.



But it is and always has been. This is a PVP game.

Except, it's not a PVP game, regardless of the amount of awesome wtfbbq PVP, it's not a PVP game. Call of Duty is a PVP game.

EVE has wondrous things beyond simple PVP. Calling a game a PVP game without it having nothing significant but PVP is kind of... wrong?


What is there to do in EVE that does not involve any form of competition between players?
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-05-06 21:57:43 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Hortense Sledgemallet wrote:

I fail to see how PVP needs to be in every aspect of the game.



But it is and always has been. This is a PVP game.

Except, it's not a PVP game, regardless of the amount of awesome wtfbbq PVP, it's not a PVP game. Call of Duty is a PVP game.

EVE has wondrous things beyond simple PVP. Calling a game a PVP game without it having nothing significant but PVP is kind of... wrong?


What is there to do in EVE that does not involve any form of competition between players?


Running missions. Most mission runners who do salvage and loot don't bother to put them up on the market but instead sell them to the highest buyout.

I'm not stopping anyone else from running missions. I'm not reducing the effective lp or isk income of others running missions, and i'm not taking up space in order to run the missions because they are performed in places where nothing ever happens.

In selling something to the highest buy order i'm not engaging in pvp but rather handing out the supplies to those who are competing. Because i'm not actively choosing who i'm selling to, i'm not part of the competition.

As long as you're not putting items on the market through sell orders than there is nothing about running missions in high sec that can resonably be considered engaging in pvp.

Even the items I purchase for running missions is only determined by those engaging in market pvp. I am not engaging in the pvp when buying these items, but rather handing out the rewards to the cheapest competitor, which in no way, shape, or form is this committing to pvp because I dont' know who i'm buying from.
SandKid
Sunset Logistics Company
#84 - 2012-05-07 02:42:06 UTC
Hortense Sledgemallet wrote:
My Hulks are tanked fine.
Have been since I lost one 1.5 years ago.
I want the Hulks buffed to affect the game as a whole, not just me.

And for those of you that choose to act hostile and insult me, don't hold your breath waiting for a reply. Roll



The fact is any ship, alone, is an easy target for a ganker - I've seen well-tanked Marauders with faction mods fall in 0.8 space to a gang of only 7. The risk/reward factor was, of course, amazing. The guy had been stalked for nearly two weeks before they made the kill after patterning him.

Hulks are actually pretty resilient when fitted with a proper tank (as opposed to strictly mining equipment). That said, if you really want to have some success you'd be surpised what one corp mate in a combat ship while you mine will do for you. I mean even a frigate.

Why?

Gankers will recognize that, because of that frigate, there is an immediate warp in point for any defensive members in the system - making you a very hard target, and really not worth the risk. Most gankers (especially right now) aren't looking for a profit, they are just enjoying Hulkageddon.

Don't have a corp - that's your problem right there. There are HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of mining corporations that offer orca support (for free) and won't infringe on your mining if you don't want them to. They do this for the exact reasons you feel a change is necessary.

The fact is, Exhumers and Barges are balanced just fine - and besides, their mass killing has actually yielded a more profitable market for miners! That means it's actually a GOOD thing for you that mining ships aren't impervious vessels. No industrial ship should be!

Many strategies exist in this thread to ward off gankers - but the best method is really to have friends. EVE is indeed a PvP game - but it is also a Player for Player game - corps are the backbone of it, unlike most MMO's where clans/guilds/groups are just a feature for socialization or tackling the most difficult challenges (of which most of New Eden is not). If you fly strictly solo, then you need to plan accordingly...a barge is probably not for you, but a cruiser is. Move to lowsec, or even nullsec or WH, and mine the incredibly rare ores.

As far PvP Games go - every single aspect of EVE, especially mining and other industrialist professions that tie directly to the market, are PvP. Even missions are PvP because of ninja salvagers or the simple fact you need the isk to fuel your growth as a capsuleer, something only doable by engaging in an incredibly intense market system - totally player driven by a toally player driven demand and totally player driven supply.
Jackal Datapaw
Doomheim
#85 - 2012-05-07 05:59:38 UTC
EVE, simplest explanation:

This game is a massive sandbox, they give you sand, and have fun, at certain times, they let you bring in 'toys' with your sandbox to help with what ever the hell you are building, hell, they even provide 'toys' of their own to help.

As a sandbox, that means you can do what ever you want. Be it build the biggest sandcastle you find. Or running over to the next kid and just kicking his sandcastle down so you can have more sand to play with! Don't blame the person for kicking your sand castle down, cause you failed to put up rocks to protect it, he just saw opportunistic moment, and he took advantage of it.

This is the most simplistic explanation you can have! :D

Have fun, fly safe.

commonly suggest cloaking and local ideas

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#86 - 2012-05-23 13:58:09 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Furthermore, it his high security space, not absolute security space. That would be like claiming that people shouldn't be able to commit crimes in cities (yet they still do, and are punished for them). CONCORD rolls in and smacks them down for committing crimes in high security space, and thus, it is balanced.


While it is true that there is nothing in the laws of physics to stop some crackhead from shooting bullets into the windows of the local police precinct, in real life the consequences for such actions tend to be much more permanent. Meaning that crackheads don't have clones, and even if they did, that would just give the law something to throw into jail for six-thousand years after they fill the original full of lead.

EvE lacks even the concept of permanent punishment. -10.0 security rating day, +5.0 security the next. CONCORD has the memory of gnat.

So there's that.

The rest of your post I agree with completely, however.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#87 - 2012-05-23 14:57:33 UTC
Fine, but when you try to make this machine as tough as this machine you're going to have to make some sacrifices. Like yield. Or cargo hold.

Making exhumers tougher can only be done fairly by reducing their cargo and/or yield. This is a bad idea, as it punishes those people who are able to operate exhumers without losing them to random people in destroyers.

Give up a third of your yield and fly a mining Rokh. It's virtually gank-proof. That's how things work: you trade productivity for security.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
LethalGeek
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2012-05-23 17:44:28 UTC
Hortense Sledgemallet wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Hortense Sledgemallet wrote:

I fail to see how PVP needs to be in every aspect of the game.



But it is and always has been. This is a PVP game.


No, it is not.

I stopped reading right here. EVE is indeed one of the most PVP oriented MMOs currently in production. You're just wrong.