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Dear Miners
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Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-05-06 14:17:31 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Karn Dulake wrote:

If the gankers are doing it for lols then you will always die.


The "lols" you describe are usually fueled by the tears of carebears. Stop whining and they will stop ganking Cool



I dont say this very often but you are an idiot. I dont fly a hulk but im offering advice on the dos and dont of mining.


You just looked at what was written and decided exactly what the other person thought
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Internet Lawyer Steve
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-05-06 14:44:38 UTC
Lady Hofstedar wrote:
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:
Risk vs. Reward.

As most of you know there are risks in this game. 99 percent of these risks can be avoided if you pay attention, fit your ship with a tank or fly with some friends. There are a lot of posts lately from high sec miners crying about how expensive their hulks were before they were exploded by some Destroyers or a Tornado.

As a famous lawyer in New Eden, I have heard many cases of Miners taking a risk by not fitting a tank for a higher yield or even going afk while they mine. This is a risk YOU take by doing this. CCP shouldnt have to change a game to fit your afk or high risk behavior. CCP also has tools in the game that can help you avoid being ganked. Please take the time to learn about fittings, how to fly your ship and this tool called a Directional Scanner.

Before I leave, My other character is a miner. I have been mining during Hulkageddon in a .5 system that is very busy and has had a ton of Hulk ganks. My ship has survived due to fitting a tank, paying attention and using my DSCAN. Yeah, My yield isnt what it was but my ship is still in one piece and I have escaped every gank attempt.


shut the **** up. Your a damn tool like every idiot who posts here

No on cares who you are or what you do

**** off


I am sorry. Did I make the pet mad?

Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,

Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time...
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#23 - 2012-05-06 15:15:39 UTC
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:
Risk vs. Reward.


Does this not imply the converse - that low reward should have low risk? Methinks either mining is much more lucrative than I remember, or your logic has failed.

No good deed goes unpunished
Internet Lawyer Steve
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-05-06 15:26:43 UTC
Maxpie wrote:
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:
Risk vs. Reward.


Does this not imply the converse - that low reward should have low risk? Methinks either mining is much more lucrative than I remember, or your logic has failed.



You take a risk by not having a tank for more yield.

I think you should check out the changes to the Drone Region.

Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,

Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time...
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#25 - 2012-05-06 15:39:01 UTC
Where is this risk when mining?

Oh right, people still mine afk and expect to be safe.Roll

Mine aligned (and at your computer) and only the most determined ganker will have a chance of getting you. And he won't be able to do it solo.
SpaceSquirrels
#26 - 2012-05-06 15:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: SpaceSquirrels
Dont complain about prices then...

Also you really want to stare at the screen for 10 minutes while nothing happens for hours..

Maybe we should finally look at changing mining to be more interactive!!!
Pyotr Kamarovi
Out Of The Depths Academy
xX SERENITY Xx
#27 - 2012-05-06 15:42:52 UTC
Perhaps they should make mining more interesting, to promote paying attention? This would be a buff, I suppose...
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-05-06 15:45:05 UTC
Chump Clone wrote:
Or you could simply mine in a Rokh...


Even tanked Rokh can be easily alpha'd with 16 Tornadoes.
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Cat Scratch Fevers
#29 - 2012-05-06 15:49:33 UTC
Re: Risk v Reward

Miners that fit no tank and die ... so be it, enjoy killing them.

Where's the Risk for the ganker? Ganker has already factored in the ship loss. The SecStatus loss is an expected part of being a HiSec ganker. So, again, where's the risk for the ganker? That his gank fails? Not likely if he has has half a brain ...

As there is no real risk in HiSec ganking ... maybe add more consequence?
Like Skill Point loss if CONCORD in on your killmail?














[yes, that last line is a troll ... just want to see who bites] Big smile

Nothing clever at this time.
Balthisus Filtch
RISE Inc.
#30 - 2012-05-06 15:55:28 UTC
Quite clearly the ease of killing a hulk is unbalanced. To say anything otherwise is just to ignore the obvious.

BUT it is what it is. You just have to get on with it and adapt. They make for easy prey so people who want easy kills are gonna jump on them..... just because they can.

What springs to my mind is why anyone is mining? It's very boring, right now quite risky and is about the worst ISK per hour. The only time CCP would need to do anything would be if the player base stopped mining - then a rebalancing would be required (or the game would die from no minerals lol). But it seems at the moment that miners are happy to mine despite ganking, so there doesn't appear to be a balance issue to discuss?

The only problem I can see is if mining is predominantly performed by new players and there is a clear trend of them quitting after continual losses. This would be a good reason I guess to limit the event to hulks ONLY, whereas the event has been trending the other way to all mining vessels.
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Cat Scratch Fevers
#31 - 2012-05-06 16:01:37 UTC
Balthisus Filtch wrote:
Quite clearly the ease of killing a hulk is unbalanced. To say anything otherwise is just to ignore the obvious.

BUT it is what it is. You just have to get on with it and adapt. They make for easy prey so people who want easy kills are gonna jump on them..... just because they can.

What springs to my mind is why anyone is mining? It's very boring, right now quite risky and is about the worst ISK per hour. The only time CCP would need to do anything would be if the player base stopped mining - then a rebalancing would be required (or the game would die from no minerals lol). But it seems at the moment that miners are happy to mine despite ganking, so there doesn't appear to be a balance issue to discuss?

The only problem I can see is if mining is predominantly performed by new players and there is a clear trend of them quitting after continual losses. This would be a good reason I guess to limit the event to hulks ONLY, whereas the event has been trending the other way to all mining vessels.



As to the "Why is anyone mining?" Yes, it can be boring but, I do it as a social event. Whether I am mining alone or in a gang, it is a chat-fest with friends. My game-time is quite limited, I am one of those folk who only get 4-10 hours a week to play. Also, as a small indy corp, I like to build stuff for sale. ... that's why I mine.

If everyone stopped mining. I would hope CCP does nothing! Let the players adjust and figure it out.

Nothing clever at this time.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-05-06 16:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigurd Sig Hansen
Thor Kerrigan wrote:


Carriers are not allowed in highsec under the constant guard of CONCORD. I think you forgot to mention that.
.


Those are called "Red herrings". designed to deflect from the point at hand cause you cant. I think they call them "straw men" here on the internet.

In regard to the cost difference of destroyer vs Hulk, CONCORD isnt a factor

Im talking the possibility that a ship such as a BC is going to be able to alpha strike a Carrier. CONCORD doesnt really matter given that unless the carrier is entirely by itself, the BC is gonna get owed by the ship itself, or its drones, of the ships with the carrier.

BUT THATS NOT THE POINT

so yeah I'll take you failure at arguing the point as agreeing.

Corina Jarr wrote:
Where is this risk when mining?

Oh right, people still mine afk and expect to be safe.Roll

Mine aligned (and at your computer) and only the most determined ganker will have a chance of getting you. And he won't be able to do it solo.


Better yet make it bannable to AFK mine. So if you get ganked and dont turn on your tank (like that one 3.6 billion Hulk) youre likely to catch a vacation.

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#33 - 2012-05-06 16:18:05 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
In regard to the cost difference of destroyer vs Hulk, CONCORD isnt a factor
No, it's the other way around — in regard to the possibility of a destroyer killing a Hulk before CONCORD steps in, cost isn't a factor.

Quote:
Im talking the possibility that a ship such as a BC is going to be able to alpha strike a Carrier. CONCORD doesnt really matter given that unless the carrier is entirely by itself, the BC is gonna get owed by the ship itself, or its drones, of the ships with the carrier.
And that possibility is actually very much in parallel to a Hulk being shot at by a destroyer. A destroyer cannot kill a properly fit Hulk, just like a BC cannot destroy a properly fit carrier; a destroyer can kill an improperly fit Hulk (even before CONCORD arrives, because this is indeed a limiting factor in what can kill what) just like BC can kill an improperly fit carrier. Neither of them will be able to alpha their target, but will be able to whittle them down over time before the local automated response kicks in.

Balthisus Filtch wrote:
Quite clearly the ease of killing a hulk is unbalanced.
in what way?

Nick Bison wrote:
Where's the Risk for the ganker?
In the certain loss of a ship; in the uncertainty of the the kill; in the uncertainty of the drops, should the target die; in the uncertainty of any other response from the pilot… Some of these can be mitigated, and some can be rendered largely irrelevant by defining different “win” conditions, but the risks are there the same.
Chump Clone
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-05-06 16:21:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Chump Clone
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Chump Clone wrote:
Or you could simply mine in a Rokh...


Even tanked Rokh can be easily alpha'd with 16 Tornadoes.



If people kept throwing 1 bill worth in tornados at every mining 200 mill mining Rokh I'd instantly buy 100 Rokhs and giggle all day...
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-05-06 16:29:25 UTC
Chump Clone wrote:
If people kept throwing 1 bill worth in tornados at every mining 200 mill mining Rokh I'd instantly buy 100 Rokhs and giggle all day...


For Goons that wouldn't be a problem. They get enough iskies from their moons.

I have to get a mining Damnation...
AureoBroker
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-05-06 16:29:43 UTC
Risk versus Reward
Mining exposes the player to higher risk than any other hisec activity, and has the lower reward.
Balanced? ...
the real miner's tear is "why aren't L4s runners gankable like us".
What would you whine for if a missioning Raven was solo-gankable by a catalyst, and a CNR by three/one 'nado?
Fearless M0F0
Incursion PWNAGE Asc
#37 - 2012-05-06 16:30:50 UTC
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:
Risk vs. Reward.
My ship has survived due to fitting a tank ...


Shocked Hulks can fit a tank?

Seriously, can you fit a reasonable priced tank to a 35PG ship? (no officer/deadspace mods)

I might be wrong, but just before I joined this game I read there was an expansion were all ship's ehp got boosted to make fights "last longer". Since then, every new "balancing" has increased alpha and/or dps in one or more ship classes in support of little whinny kids' instant gratification cravings.

I think CCP should take a good look at overall ehp vs dps and alpha: I say cut all dps/alpha by 50%, boost PG in barges and industrials so they can fit a reasonable tanked without requiring officer mods (up to maybe 50% of a BC tank?)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#38 - 2012-05-06 16:35:20 UTC
AureoBroker wrote:
the real miner's tear is "why aren't L4s runners gankable like us".
What would you whine for if a missioning Raven was solo-gankable by a catalyst, and a CNR by three/one 'nado?
Funnily enough, given similar circumstances, they pretty much are…
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#39 - 2012-05-06 17:09:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Tippia wrote:
No, it's the other way around — in regard to the possibility of a destroyer killing a Hulk before CONCORD steps in, cost isn't a factor.



Im not real smart but youre usually better at trolling than this tippia. The original argument was why should something the value of a destroyer be able to kill something the value of a Hulk with a suicide gank. A suicide kill in high sec, yes, involves CONCORD. The argument SEEMS to be if you get in range for whatever reason in a BC and get a shot off on a carrier you ARENT gonna kill it like you can with a Destroyer vs a Hulk. One shot you get. Vs CONCORD or vs whatever is defending the carrier.

Destroyer vs hulk = Hulk dead
BC vs Carrier/other bigass expensive ship in like with 100 times the value of the ship youre attacking with, likely the BC loses, yes?

I THINK thats the point trying to be brought across.

Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Chump Clone wrote:
If people kept throwing 1 bill worth in tornados at every mining 200 mill mining Rokh I'd instantly buy 100 Rokhs and giggle all day...


For Goons that wouldn't be a problem. They get enough iskies from their moons.

I have to get a mining Damnation...


Infinite monies are infinite after all. Its cute how theyre saying tech moons should be nerfed too lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#40 - 2012-05-06 17:13:10 UTC
AureoBroker wrote:
Risk versus Reward
Mining exposes the player to higher risk than any other hisec activity, and has the lower reward.
Balanced? ...
the real miner's tear is "why aren't L4s runners gankable like us".
What would you whine for if a missioning Raven was solo-gankable by a catalyst, and a CNR by three/one 'nado?


Why DONT they gank the mission runners? Blinged out faction mission ships are worth a hell of a lot more than a hulk
Or better yet (given resists and all) Incursion runners. The Incursion rats are all the same resists right? Use ammo that theyd be weak in and suicide gank their logis and watch their group shake itself apart?

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

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