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Players of high sec - CCP is trolling you and laughing while doing it. A proposition.

Author
Whitehound
#221 - 2012-05-06 14:23:01 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Whitehound wrote:

Oh noes, Eternum desdoyed pic of high-sects n00bs. Naw ther all segret 0.0 blobblers. Oops


Noobs don't run bots in mining fleets. FYI.
Did you forget to take your medication again?

I did not know I was supposed to take any.

Anyhow, it is difficult to prove any of this, which makes it extremely useful as argument in this kind of discussion. Hard to stay serious, really.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#222 - 2012-05-06 14:23:08 UTC
Andski wrote:
How is this any different from your stupid tinfoil nonsense about nullsec residents, who have access to far superior income sources, macromining veldspar in hisec?



If you have not read the last two pages, vividly describing the who, what, when and how... I can't help you. I am not going to pyramid post 2 pages worth of posting for a troll who won't even read it, after it was reposted a second time.




So I guess you can't come up with a valid counterargument then? Ok.
I do understand, being that this is how the game is commonly played these days. It is hard to divert attention from common practice.

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#223 - 2012-05-06 14:23:47 UTC
The problem is that they choose to be defenseless. Fit a mediocre tank and pack a set of medium ECM drones and your chances of survival are that much better.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#224 - 2012-05-06 14:24:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:

It does not matter whether or not it is superior. Where do you think that all that trit on the market comes from then? If you don't mine it that way for yourself, others are mining it that way for you.


Not to mention the most obvious answer, why by what you can bot? It is more economical to bot.


Perhaps, but if you do insist on botting (which is kind of creepy you know) why wouldn't you just bot up the isk to buy the minerals?

And yes, I'm sure the market trickery you are talking about is going to let you make capital ship ammo without high end minerals.

I've personally built hundreds of billions of isk worth of supercapital ships, and every single one was built using minerals sourced from Jita and compacted into a wide variety of mods (not just ammo), of course that was before the compression nerf.

If you do insist on mining yourself because you are a sadist there is really no good reason why you would take on the extra hassle of compressing it when the minerals are freely available right at your build site.



Perhaps you have done it this way...
But you fail to take into account where all the trit that you are buying comes from.





Also, high ends are shipped to empire... that is how you get it in empire.
Your pretend reasoning is not a sensible counter argument under any reasonable scrutiny.

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Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#225 - 2012-05-06 14:25:01 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
So I guess you can't come up with a valid counterargument then? Ok.
I do understand, being that this is how the game is commonly played these days. It is hard to divert attention from common practice.


You are trying to say that for some reason 0.0 empires are desperate for the trit in empire to the point where they would -mine it themselves- rather than paying pubbies to do it for a pittance.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#226 - 2012-05-06 14:25:10 UTC
Andski wrote:
Oh and while you toss that whole "hurrr 300 mil ship dying to a much cheaper one" you should probably stay out of nullsec where expensive ships die to much, much cheaper ones all the time

see ratting tengus dying to solo hurricanes


Yeah, Tengus never get destroyed like that in hisec. Roll

You'll have a point when we start seeing cap ships ganked by a battleship, or even a cruiser.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
OnlyFleets.
#227 - 2012-05-06 14:25:30 UTC
Andski wrote:
The problem is that they choose to be defenseless. Fit a mediocre tank and pack a set of medium ECM drones and your chances of survival are that much better.

That would require the miners to be able to use ECM drones in the first place...
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#228 - 2012-05-06 14:26:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Ungabungas
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:

It does not matter whether or not it is superior. Where do you think that all that trit on the market comes from then? If you don't mine it that way for yourself, others are mining it that way for you.


Not to mention the most obvious answer, why by what you can bot? It is more economical to bot.


Perhaps, but if you do insist on botting (which is kind of creepy you know) why wouldn't you just bot up the isk to buy the minerals?

And yes, I'm sure the market trickery you are talking about is going to let you make capital ship ammo without high end minerals.

I've personally built hundreds of billions of isk worth of supercapital ships, and every single one was built using minerals sourced from Jita and compacted into a wide variety of mods (not just ammo), of course that was before the compression nerf.

If you do insist on mining yourself because you are a sadist there is really no good reason why you would take on the extra hassle of compressing it when the minerals are freely available right at your build site.



Perhaps you have done it this way...
But you fail to take into account where all the trit that you are buying comes from.





Also, high ends are shipped to empire... that is how you get it in empire.


Ok, so now your business model is:
1. Mine high ends in 0.0.
2. Move these to Jita.
3. Mine trit.
4. Compress all this ****.
5. Move it back to 0.0

I can see how that is way more efficient than just mining it in 0.0 to start with. You're on a winner there.

I know where the trit I buy in empire comes from, but I really don't understand why 'mining everying in 0.0' is somehow worse than 'mining high ends in 0.0, moving mining fleet to high sec, mining low ends in empire'.

PS: The real winner here is the player that pays isk for the minerals rather than mining them on their own/
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#229 - 2012-05-06 14:26:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
So I guess you can't come up with a valid counterargument then? Ok.
I do understand, being that this is how the game is commonly played these days. It is hard to divert attention from common practice.


You are trying to say that for some reason 0.0 empires are desperate for the trit in empire to the point where they would -mine it themselves- rather than paying pubbies to do it for a pittance.




No. I am saying multiple account holding, multi-boxing RMT'ers fuel the vast portion of supercapitals presently in the game, with their ludicrous amounts of mineral acquisitions. And all major alliances benefit from this form of EULA violating metagaming.

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Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#230 - 2012-05-06 14:27:17 UTC
nerf compression completely
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#231 - 2012-05-06 14:28:20 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
So I guess you can't come up with a valid counterargument then? Ok.
I do understand, being that this is how the game is commonly played these days. It is hard to divert attention from common practice.


You are trying to say that for some reason 0.0 empires are desperate for the trit in empire to the point where they would -mine it themselves- rather than paying pubbies to do it for a pittance.




No. I am saying multiple account holding, multi-boxing RMT'ers fuel the vast portion of supercapitals presently in the game, with their ludicrous amounts of mineral acquisitions. And all major alliances benefit from this form of EULA violating metagaming.


Oh, so these RMTers are naturally associated with alliances, because

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#232 - 2012-05-06 14:29:02 UTC
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Ok, so now your business model is:
1. Mine high ends in 0.0.
2. Move these to Jita.
3. Mine trit.
4. Compress all this ****.
5. Move it back to 0.0

I can see how that is way more efficient than just mining it in 0.0 to start with. You're on a winner there.

I know where the trit I buy in empire comes from, but I really don't understand why 'mining everying in 0.0' is somehow worse than 'mining high ends in 0.0, moving mining fleet to high sec, mining low ends in empire'.

PS: The real winner here is the player that pays isk for the minerals rather than mining them on their own/


You see, Doc, if you mine it yourself, it's free!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#233 - 2012-05-06 14:29:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Ungabungas
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
So I guess you can't come up with a valid counterargument then? Ok.
I do understand, being that this is how the game is commonly played these days. It is hard to divert attention from common practice.


You are trying to say that for some reason 0.0 empires are desperate for the trit in empire to the point where they would -mine it themselves- rather than paying pubbies to do it for a pittance.




No. I am saying multiple account holding, multi-boxing RMT'ers fuel the vast portion of supercapitals presently in the game, with their ludicrous amounts of mineral acquisitions. And all major alliances benefit from this form of EULA violating metagaming.


Absolutely, but when you buy trit off the market you have no way of filtering the 'bad trit' from the 'good farm grown trit'. If I could buy 'honestly farmed trit only', I would.

PS: There is still no reason why you would relocate your 0.0 mining empire to high sec to mine veldspar, there is plenty in 0.0.
Blatant Forum Alt
Doomheim
#234 - 2012-05-06 14:29:26 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
No. I am saying multiple account holding, multi-boxing RMT'ers fuel the vast portion of supercapitals presently in the game, with their ludicrous amounts of mineral acquisitions. And all major alliances benefit from this form of EULA violating metagaming.

He just pulled out the RMT card. This **** just got real.
Whitehound
#235 - 2012-05-06 14:30:05 UTC
Speaking of botters... Now that CCP is kicking botters out, why is this not creating more trust in the remaining players that they are not botters?

It is probably because there is no real cure for paranoia or something. Those who have not been identified as botters are probably just really very tricky botters and hard to identify. Roll

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#236 - 2012-05-06 14:31:43 UTC
Andski wrote:
Oh, so these RMTers are naturally associated with alliances, because



Because null sec is where all of the best digital money is at. It is the most effective way to turn massive quantities of game ISK to real life money.

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Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#237 - 2012-05-06 14:31:57 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
I play in Hisec and Nullsec.

I have ice miners in nullsec and the risk of losing a whole fleet by missing even a few seconds of intel is huge. The same with hauling anything around. You think smartbombing BSs are bad with their 5km range? 4 or 5 stealth bombers can murder an entire fleet in one bombing run even if your fleet is spread out.

In nullsec you pay bilions of isk for your services, upgrades and so on, your intel is player run, your safety is in teh hands of your freinds.

I have a Mack/Hulk pilot in Hisec I mine afk alot, I fly around alot, I haul stuff alot adn I have never once lost a ship in hundreds and hundreds of hours hisec mining and hauling.

In hisec I dont pay anything for any upgrades, I dont need intel, i dont need scouts, i dont need roaming home defence fleets, I dont even need to be at my keyboard.

Dont assume that just because people play their main game in nullsec that they dont also play in hisec too. It makes you look stupid.





um.... try it in highsec during hulkageddon then feel re-re when you lose it.

Stop being the good little Goon BB

er BFF

DarthNefarius wrote:
Protest thru unsubbing then


Meant as a troll I know but

amazingly good idea as the summer of QQ told us.


I just dont mine during hulkageddon, because that would be stupid. It isnt hard.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#238 - 2012-05-06 14:32:21 UTC
Got nothing to do with trust, we pretty much just don't like each other.
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#239 - 2012-05-06 14:32:39 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Andski wrote:
Oh, so these RMTers are naturally associated with alliances, because



Because null sec is where all of the best digital money is at. It is the most effective way to turn massive quantities of game ISK to real life money.


So all of the people with the 'best digital money' at their fingertips need to run bot empires in high sec for 5 million isk an hour.

Now the story has legs.

And it's walking right out the door.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#240 - 2012-05-06 14:34:56 UTC
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:

PS: There is still no reason why you would relocate your 0.0 mining empire to high sec to mine veldspar, there is plenty in 0.0.



Yes there is, and the reason has been repeatedly stated. You want your AFK moon minerals, and you want your AFK mining fleet that can mine unimpeded and without interruption. If you did so in null, your enemies would park AFK cloaking black ops ships in your systems and prevent your baby titans being born before your towers were even impregnated with sperm.




Your player member base does not want to exert nor the time nor the effort involved in protecting a long term mining operation. So doing so in empire is far more economical in terms of time vs ease vs yield.






See? I know all of your secrets.

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