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Darwinism Died with Eve? How Space Ship Engineers Never Learned to Adapt - And Stopped Worrying.

Author
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-05-06 02:07:39 UTC



GANKED by Warthog

i really wished we had stuff like this in game
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#82 - 2012-05-06 02:20:24 UTC
Rezig Huruta wrote:
So, how about using a buffer ship... maybe I don't know... shield transfer arrays and other such things to last a bit longer until the baddies get Concorded?



Doesnt work in current fleet envrionment ships die before logi's could cycle. Even with shield xporters.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-05-06 04:30:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Xython
Archdaimon wrote:
Mining ships. It makes no sense, from any fluffy perspective that ships continuously ganked never develops and becomes able to counter that thread. Few times in history have people insisted on being so ******** as to continue doing the same mistake over and over. No place in Eve has ever been safe enough for any ship design as paper thin as an exhumer to be designed in the first place!

One should think that an Engineer had at least enough some entrepreneurial spirit as to create a mining design not popin on sight. The resource is worth it. Current ship design just plain weird.


Er, you could fly any battleship in the game and mine in it with a decent tank. I suggest a Dominix with Mining Drones.

The Exhumers are glass cannons because they were never meant as solo ships. You are supposed to have a combat escort, even if it's someone on a gate that can shout out when a combat ship from a known griefing corp shows up.

Edit: Also, postin' in another "Wah, I should be invincible" thread.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#84 - 2012-05-06 05:07:18 UTC
Xython wrote:
Edit: Also, postin' in another "Wah, I should be invincible" thread.

Heh. They're pretty common, I guess.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#85 - 2012-05-06 09:48:51 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Xython wrote:
Edit: Also, postin' in another "Wah, I should be invincible" thread.

Heh. They're pretty common, I guess.


Cry baby. THis has nothing to do with being invincible, in the same way one could argue that you just want a challenge even two-year olds could handle in kinder garden. Your just sad that someone is actually interested in balance instead of sadism.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -

seany1212
M Y S T
#86 - 2012-05-06 11:14:41 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
seany1212 wrote:
Oh look, another one of these threads, oh look, what's worse is it's a alliance member Blink

Show me a decent buffer tanked hulk that's lost to gankers (start with a DC2 Roll)... That's because pretty much everyone mining sticks survey scanners and cargohold expanders/mining upgrades in their respective mids and lows. When I start seeing actual tanked hulks on lossmails to gankers then i'll side with any one of these terrible threads Roll



..and you can still fit 5 ships for half the price and bring a group of guys out to alpha it.

The argument that mining exhumers can mine lots having something to do with ship balance is ********. Like that should somehow offset the fitting capabilities and tank vs. gank of the ship.

Here's an argument for you: You can fit a few HACs for less than it costs to buy an Exhumer HULL and go ratting, running Incursions, ganking in Lowsec, complexing, mission running, etc.. and make equal to or better ISK than a Hulk can mining.


2-3 tornados can alpha a multi-billion isk shield boosting tengu, what's your point? The fact is miners have ways to reduce their chances of getting ganked, most in highsec choose to be afk and defend their ship with cargo extenders and mining upgrades. And for digital Messiah that's the funniest post I've read in a while considering mining just got the biggest boost in the game. There are lots of ways to make more isk than mining, but it comes down to risk vs. reward and if you were paying attention when mining (dscan and all) there would be no risk Roll
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#87 - 2012-05-06 11:29:34 UTC
Archdaimon wrote:
Hi Goons. Yeah I heard of the Rokh. It is also a battleship designed for combat able to fit mining lasers (wtf?).

My point is. If this was a sandbox and I spent 100 bil isk designing a better tanked mining ship I am pretty sure I'd find investors pretty fast.

I mean I would almost be able to find investors on this real planet called earth:

http://www.economist.com/node/21553419



You also wouldn't sell very many would you? Numpty.

If a ship is that gank resistant, then they don't get blown up, no repeat business, business dies. Well done you just failed simple business logic 101.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.

Internet Lawyer Steve
Doomheim
#88 - 2012-05-06 11:45:40 UTC
Archdaimon wrote:

Mining ships. It makes no sense, from any fluffy perspective that ships continuously ganked never develops and becomes able to counter that thread. Few times in history have people insisted on being so ******** as to continue doing the same mistake over and over. No place in Eve has ever been safe enough for any ship design as paper thin as an exhumer to be designed in the first place!

One should think that an Engineer had at least enough some entrepreneurial spirit as to create a mining design not popin on sight. The resource is worth it. Current ship design just plain weird.




Interenet Lawyer Steve on the scene...

Miners get ganked because they are not paying attention or fit no tank to their high sec ship. Mostly its not paying attention.



Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,

Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time...

Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#89 - 2012-05-06 11:49:16 UTC
Archdaimon wrote:
Disclaimer: Not a carebear blah blah, didn't lose any hulks blah blah, don't live in Hi blah blah.

Matter at Hand:

Eve is a Sandbox or tries to be as much as possible. What is not "sandboxable" is the ship designs of Eve. They are sort of given to us by magical beings deciding what we can fly and what we can't.

.......... ?



Than hire players who will protect you - spend some ISK in that - they get the fight, you get the (relative) security.

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-05-06 11:59:47 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Huh, I had a better proposal.... alllow bounty hunters to track down their targets in a way that gave a meaning to "being wanted"

Sahmelessly plugging it:

My "EVE Retaliation" proposal

Exceprt:

Quote:
Summary:

- unlimitedly transferable kill rights; if a hirer is fillthy rich and can throw 20 hunters on the agressor, let the agressor have it
- pay for destroying the target's stuff, not merely kill him. No longer self-killing for the bounty unless you're up to losing twice the reward.
- any other target in the prey's corporation can be punished too. If you gang together against bounty hunters, bounty hunters can gang together against you.
- bounty hunters can track the last moves of their target via stargates and stations. It sucks to be hunted.
- bounty hunters can pinpoint the last moves of the target via the target's appearences in local chat. It sucks a lot to be hunted.


Nice Idea, but what would stop You from putting bounties on all those juicy High-Sec miners?

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2012-05-06 12:12:21 UTC
I agree to the OP, 100%.

Buff miners !
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-05-06 12:14:27 UTC
Scien Inkunen wrote:
Archdaimon wrote:
Disclaimer: Not a carebear blah blah, didn't lose any hulks blah blah, don't live in Hi blah blah.

Matter at Hand:

Eve is a Sandbox or tries to be as much as possible. What is not "sandboxable" is the ship designs of Eve. They are sort of given to us by magical beings deciding what we can fly and what we can't.

.......... ?



Than hire players who will protect you - spend some ISK in that - they get the fight, you get the (relative) security.


Nice idea, but how can other players effectively protect Your Hulk?

A group of lets say 3 - 4 destroyers will Kill the Hulk in less than 10 seconds + approximately two seconds of lock time, that's not really a lot of time. If You wanted to protect Your miners You'd either have to suicide gank the destroyers before they can do the same to Your hulky friends or You'd have to have ridiculous amounts of repping power.

Don't get me wrong, having so much repping power is entirely possible. You just need a lot of logistic ships to do so, but then those same players flying the logistics ships could be earning ridiculous amounts of isk by doing some incursions or doing plexes in null or low sec...

So there's two options I see there. You have enough money to pay for protection, in which case You'll probably end up bankrupt pretty soon, or You have enough friends, corp mates, companions etc. to protect You on a regular basis during Your mining "adventures", in which case You'll probably end up mining in null, pretty soon.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-05-06 13:00:58 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Scien Inkunen wrote:
Archdaimon wrote:
Disclaimer: Not a carebear blah blah, didn't lose any hulks blah blah, don't live in Hi blah blah.

Matter at Hand:

Eve is a Sandbox or tries to be as much as possible. What is not "sandboxable" is the ship designs of Eve. They are sort of given to us by magical beings deciding what we can fly and what we can't.

.......... ?



Than hire players who will protect you - spend some ISK in that - they get the fight, you get the (relative) security.


Nice idea, but how can other players effectively protect Your Hulk?

A group of lets say 3 - 4 destroyers will Kill the Hulk in less than 10 seconds + approximately two seconds of lock time, that's not really a lot of time. If You wanted to protect Your miners You'd either have to suicide gank the destroyers before they can do the same to Your hulky friends or You'd have to have ridiculous amounts of repping power.

Don't get me wrong, having so much repping power is entirely possible. You just need a lot of logistic ships to do so, but then those same players flying the logistics ships could be earning ridiculous amounts of isk by doing some incursions or doing plexes in null or low sec...

So there's two options I see there. You have enough money to pay for protection, in which case You'll probably end up bankrupt pretty soon, or You have enough friends, corp mates, companions etc. to protect You on a regular basis during Your mining "adventures", in which case You'll probably end up mining in null, pretty soon.



Well, any protection is better than none.

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-05-06 13:44:56 UTC
Scien Inkunen wrote:



Well, any protection is better than none.


True, but the main problem here is, that the protection You need will just cost so much that it's not really something the average miner can afford.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#95 - 2012-05-06 14:00:52 UTC
Andski wrote:
There's this one hull that can be fit to mine pretty well and fit a great tank.

You may have heard of it, it's called the Rokh.


Since the Rokh is the best mining ship these days, it may be viable that the bonuses get readjusted. At last a purpose for the Rokh! Everyone hail the Rokh.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.

Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#96 - 2012-05-06 14:08:06 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Scien Inkunen wrote:



Well, any protection is better than none.


True, but the main problem here is, that the protection You need will just cost so much that it's not really something the average miner can afford.



Well, then they only can peacefully lose their ships.
Or they can have members with fighting skills, not only miner or industrials.

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !

Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Cat Scratch Fevers
#97 - 2012-05-06 14:46:13 UTC
seany1212 wrote:
... The fact is miners have ways to reduce their chances of getting ganked, most in highsec choose to be afk and defend their ship with cargo extenders and mining upgrades. ... Roll


I would not call that a fact at all but your supposition. I can definitely see how you would come to that conclusion as the KBs mostly show Hulk kills fit that way.

My Hulks are all fit with what I call a deterant-tank; Shield resist rigs, DCUII, shield boost, Inv Fld etc ... is it gank-proof? Hell no! But, it does keep the guys looking for the quick gank away.

So, I guess I am saying "Thank you" for thinning out the herd of the dumb-miners and leaving more ore for me!

Nothing clever at this time.

Gloomy Gus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#98 - 2012-05-06 14:51:56 UTC
It's been said a billion times before, enough times that I'm ashamed to even post it, but since someone else hasn't ITT here I go.

HIRE COMBAT SHIPS.

EVE is intended to work that way. Noone is ever everything solo, at least not at anything close to peak effectiveness. EVE is designed to make many ship types work together. Do that.

"DIE N***ERS1 DIE!!!" - EVENEWS24's Riverini "Gloomy Gus is literally a pocket" - Krixtal Icefluxor (former EVE Online player)

Pyotr Kamarovi
Out Of The Depths Academy
xX SERENITY Xx
#99 - 2012-05-06 15:06:01 UTC
Gloomy Gus wrote:
It's been said a billion times before, enough times that I'm ashamed to even post it, but since someone else hasn't ITT here I go.

HIRE COMBAT SHIPS.

EVE is intended to work that way. Noone is ever everything solo, at least not at anything close to peak effectiveness. EVE is designed to make many ship types work together. Do that.


Wait, what? How do combat ships help? Are you saying they should sacrifice themselves by trying to alpha the gankers before they can get a volley off and take down the mining ship? How the hell does that work?
stoicfaux
#100 - 2012-05-06 15:07:02 UTC
Gloomy Gus wrote:
It's been said a billion times before, enough times that I'm ashamed to even post it, but since someone else hasn't ITT here I go.

HIRE COMBAT SHIPS.

EVE is intended to work that way. Noone is ever everything solo, at least not at anything close to peak effectiveness. EVE is designed to make many ship types work together. Do that.

Right idea (solo is bad,) wrong solution though (guards are expensive and and guard duty is boring.)

If criminals are perma-flagged as criminals (i.e. they're shoot on sight) after their first criminal act, then the community of players can effectively police high-sec. Gankers can still gank, high-sec carebears become more social in protecting themselves. Win win.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.