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Actual Shares markets are coming.
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Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-05-06 10:15:48 UTC
I cant think anything more unfunctional in douchebag online then stock market. Its a pretty idea sure .. but like Ollienorth allready summed up very well .. its impossible in EVE.

Someone else said that bonds are working "healty" .. garbage .. if anyone is actually honoring them .. its only because they are working themselfs towards "the big heist". Saying something else means only that you are destined to lose you isk one day.


Remember the golden rule of internet "money" actions ... If you cant hit the person irl .. dont loan him anything.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#22 - 2012-05-06 11:54:58 UTC
Seriously.. Shares are rather simple. A lot simpler then some of these comments imply..

Shares is a loan with a stake/security in the actual company. So the NAV represent the value upon liquidation.. Just like your securitized loans in EVE using a Hulk. This is simply a bigger loan, and with "everything" as collateral. The added benefit is the interest is based on ownership SHARE.

The comment about future profits, is irrelevant, that is just some fancy bookkeeping really. It makes sense to invest based on future profits, and company value. That is trading shares speculatively. Its all betting when it comes down to it.

My claim is the current changes to EVE and some of the features we have talked about for ages in here are NOW almost all getting here.. The NAV calculation was there with API, but now its tangible and intuitive, and dont need a lot of out of client tools. Yes MD have traded all types of advanced financial products, or experimented with it, but it will only be a real part of EVE when the ingame features support it..

That is also why WE NEED STANDING BASED CONSEQUENCES.. Embargoes and Boycotts MUST be part of the game. That is why contracts and market orders needs a huge boost, and corp and alliance features need to be integrated into this. Some of these things seem to be right around the corner..

It is also worth noting that there is a general revolution in EVE markets underway. Its only just started.. It seems ccp is finally fixing the HUGE flaws in the economy..
Moto Akimoto
Tengu and Cash
#23 - 2012-05-06 15:13:55 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


MFs and ETFs have nothing to do with corporation shares though.


This is true but corporate shares in Eve aren't "Corporate Shares" either. At best, these shares are a halfbaked mechanism to lock down BPOs (which most MD posters know how to circumvent anyways). P
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#24 - 2012-05-06 15:44:44 UTC
Moto Akimoto wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


MFs and ETFs have nothing to do with corporation shares though.


This is true but corporate shares in Eve aren't "Corporate Shares" either. At best, these shares are a halfbaked mechanism to lock down BPOs (which most MD posters know how to circumvent anyways). P


I don't think they are half backed, they just don't function like we expect (that is we expect they are like RL).

If you noticed we have other skills like Margin Trading that somewhat conceptually resemble their RL counterpart but really are not it.

I'd look at EvE shares as a mechanic created to support CCP's idea of "corporation", where in their original plans certain members would be hired like in a real company (and not a "guild") and paid periodic dividends thru those shares. EvE shares would be more or less enough for such a task.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
#25 - 2012-05-06 16:02:12 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

I'd look at EvE shares as a mechanic created to support CCP's idea of "corporation", where in their original plans certain members would be hired like in a real company (and not a "guild") and paid periodic dividends thru those shares. EvE shares would be more or less enough for such a task.


This would be a wonderful mechanic, but because CCP conflated "shares" with "voting shares" with "employment contract shares", it's not workable.

If a corporation wanted to easily pay a salary, or have a profit share scheme, then what you'd need are shares that are NOT treated as assets, but as promisory notes. The only difference between that and what we have, is that the corporation would have the ability to reclaim those shares as any time.

Essentially, the holder would be expected to perform some service for the corporation, and as long as they continued to perform that service, they would be allowed to hold the 'shares'.

What we have now are shares that are really only useful as an internal voting tool for corporations that are managed by committee. They're useless as anything else, because as others have mentioned, without laws, the only determinant of ownership is possession. Therefore, no corporation in Eve owns ANY assets, only individuals with access do. Shares are tied to the corporation, but value is freely transferable.

To build a stock market, you're asking CCP to come up with a system to enable 'locking' of value to a corporate entity, without using laws.

Good luck.
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