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ZOMG Kitsune
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Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#21 - 2012-05-05 18:15:39 UTC
ELECTR0FREAK wrote:
A battleship with large weapons is pretty much going to be screwed against any frigate blob if they're intelligent enough to kill your drones.


The gang composition is/was never an issue. Frigs? Who cares? I had 25 Warrior IIs to take care of them. The issue is a frig that has 80% of the peak jam strength of a Falcon, with greater ECM optimal range, and the ability to perma-jam a BS with a few multispec ECM.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#22 - 2012-05-05 18:53:47 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
So there I was, sitting around in my Megathron when a blob arrives sporting a Kitsune. Now, I have a healthy respect (hate?) for Falcons/Rooks, but I thought "all EAS are garbage, the Kitsune can't be that bad". Big mistake. Who knew it has 80% of the jam strength of a Falcon?

So yeah, me (solo) vs. blob w/ Kitsune = dead. But only because I was permajammed and never once had the opportunity to lock anyone. At all. Ever.

Soooo disappointing.

All of the other EAS are complete garbage. Why is the Kitsune so good in comparison? Do the other EAS need to be buffed? Is ECM simply overpowered and too good? I keep trying to find a situation where a frig would be justified permajamming a BS and I can't. Can you?


This would be your loss? http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16319007

You were dead the minute you got tackled or chose to engage. Stealth bomber, Raven, Myrmidon, Thorax, assorted frigs, and 2 Kitsunes.

But yeah, it was all the Kitsune's fault. Not yours. You would have lost that ship anyway. It's just easier to blame it all on ECM.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-05-05 19:05:08 UTC
Diomedes WINS !

PERFECT !


Lying about a loss and making a cry thread about ECM , priceless.
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#24 - 2012-05-05 19:05:43 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
So there I was, sitting around in my Megathron when a blob arrives sporting a Kitsune. Now, I have a healthy respect (hate?) for Falcons/Rooks, but I thought "all EAS are garbage, the Kitsune can't be that bad". Big mistake. Who knew it has 80% of the jam strength of a Falcon?

So yeah, me (solo) vs. blob w/ Kitsune = dead. But only because I was permajammed and never once had the opportunity to lock anyone. At all. Ever.

Soooo disappointing.

All of the other EAS are complete garbage. Why is the Kitsune so good in comparison? Do the other EAS need to be buffed? Is ECM simply overpowered and too good? I keep trying to find a situation where a frig would be justified permajamming a BS and I can't. Can you?


This would be your loss? http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16319007

You were dead the minute you got tackled or chose to engage. Stealth bomber, Raven, Myrmidon, Thorax, assorted frigs, and 2 Kitsunes.

But yeah, it was all the Kitsune's fault. Not yours. You would have lost that ship anyway. It's just easier to blame it all on ECM.


Yep, but of course a kill mail in and of itself doesn't tell the entire story. The largest ships came in one by one and eventually piled on as they were having a hard time bringing me down. If I were able to lock anything I would have been able to reduce the incoming DPS to the point that I probably would have lived. I had plenty of cap and was able to rep right to the end. If only I had been able to lock a target or two... oh wait...

Also, the 2nd Kitsune was only there to whore onto the kill mail. He didn't enter the fight until the very end.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#25 - 2012-05-05 19:07:45 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Diomedes WINS !

PERFECT !


Lying about a loss and making a cry thread about ECM , priceless.


At what point exactly did I lie? A single Kitsune was the key factor in an otherwise winnable fight. Again, people are posting when they don't know what they're talking about.

Also- NPC corp posting alt? Lol.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#26 - 2012-05-05 19:15:07 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Dude, I get it. The Kitsune probably kept you from getting a lock on something early on in that fight, giving the rest of them time to pile on you. But your mistake was in initial target selection and not scouting, not because of the Kitsune. It did its job properly in this fight.

Edit - I'm not sure I'd call this fight winnable in any case. The Myrmidon alone would have been able to kill you. You might have taken a few T1 frigates with you.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#27 - 2012-05-05 19:22:21 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Dude, I get it. The Kitsune probably kept you from getting a lock on something early on in that fight, giving the rest of them time to pile on you. But your mistake was in initial target selection and not scouting, not because of the Kitsune. It did it's job properly in this fight.


Diomedes-

I've always respected your input (I've been around for a long while, this isn't my first character), but my point here is that the Kitsune's jam strength is 80% as strong as a Falcon/Rook. I think that relative to these very powerful and capable ships, it's too much for a frig.

OR,

The other 3 EAS need to be massively buffed to be as competitive as the Kitsune is.

When was the last time you heard someone scream on Teamspeak "OH MY GOD, THEY HAVE TARGET PAINTERS?!?!?!"

Saying "that's just the way it is, deal with it" never got anything fixed/improved.

Also- the Kitsune didn't keep me from getting a lock "early on", it kept me from getting a lock *at all*. I was literally shut out for the entire engagement. It's just silly.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Gul'gotha Derv'ash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-05-05 20:10:57 UTC
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Diomedes WINS !

PERFECT !


Lying about a loss and making a cry thread about ECM , priceless.


At what point exactly did I lie? A single Kitsune was the key factor in an otherwise winnable fight. Again, people are posting when they don't know what they're talking about.

Also- NPC corp posting alt? Lol.



There is absolutely 0 chance you would have survived that encounter even if the Kitsune(s) weren't there. Like a previous poster said you were dead as soon as you were tackled or tried to engage their bait.
ELECTR0FREAK
#29 - 2012-05-05 20:15:57 UTC
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
ELECTR0FREAK wrote:
A battleship with large weapons is pretty much going to be screwed against any frigate blob if they're intelligent enough to kill your drones.


The gang composition is/was never an issue. Frigs? Who cares? I had 25 Warrior IIs to take care of them. The issue is a frig that has 80% of the peak jam strength of a Falcon, with greater ECM optimal range, and the ability to perma-jam a BS with a few multispec ECM.


Who cares how many Warrior II you had? You were screwed, ECM or not.

Discoverer of CCP's original missile damage formula.
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#30 - 2012-05-05 20:49:46 UTC
Gul'gotha Derv'ash wrote:
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Diomedes WINS !

PERFECT !


Lying about a loss and making a cry thread about ECM , priceless.


At what point exactly did I lie? A single Kitsune was the key factor in an otherwise winnable fight. Again, people are posting when they don't know what they're talking about.

Also- NPC corp posting alt? Lol.



There is absolutely 0 chance you would have survived that encounter even if the Kitsune(s) weren't there. Like a previous poster said you were dead as soon as you were tackled or tried to engage their bait.


I've killed more with less. Their gang isn't that big a deal. I guess I'll remember to Fraps it next time, just for the evidence. I engage gangs this size by myself quite often, I don't have any issues unless there is a Falcon/Kitsune around. Roll

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-05-05 20:52:35 UTC
so in sum it's not because of ECM but because of the OP not knowing that in EVE there's always a bigger dog.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-05-05 22:41:21 UTC
Wow, ECM-victim tears... Haven't seen this in a while. Big smile
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#33 - 2012-05-05 22:43:44 UTC
I just realized that the Kitsune gets +20% ECM strength PER LEVEL, while the Keres gets 5% per level. LOL?

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Kumi Mashiba
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-05-05 23:20:48 UTC
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
I just realized that the Kitsune gets +20% ECM strength PER LEVEL, while the Keres gets 5% per level. LOL?


20% per level is what's needed to reliably jam anything bigger than a T1 frigate. If it were 5% per level, Kitsune would be absolutely worthless. I do admit that the Keres 5% bonus is pitiful and should probably be buffed (with stacking penalties taken away), but that's another issue.

The biggest issue I see going on with the EWAR debacle is the fact that ECM doesn't have a "stacking penalty" , while everything else does.
Moroccan Tourist
Blood Raider Cleaning Crew
#35 - 2012-05-06 01:17:25 UTC
switch those ketsunes to 2 arbitrators with tracking disruptor , you'll will lock people and won't hit **** ! and die horribly and say EWAR is OP when you actually fought 1vs14 Roll
Copine Callmeknau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-05-06 02:06:59 UTC
Moroccan Tourist wrote:
switch those ketsunes to 2 arbitrators with tracking disruptor , you'll will lock people and won't hit **** ! and die horribly and say EWAR is OP when you actually fought 1vs14 Roll

Except if you're in a mega you're sitting still, and the arbi's scram/webbed. Really not going to have troubles hitting in that situation

There should be a rather awesome pic here
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#37 - 2012-05-06 07:39:59 UTC
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Moroccan Tourist wrote:
switch those ketsunes to 2 arbitrators with tracking disruptor , you'll will lock people and won't hit **** ! and die horribly and say EWAR is OP when you actually fought 1vs14 Roll

Except if you're in a mega you're sitting still, and the arbi's scram/webbed. Really not going to have troubles hitting in that situation


Why would the Arbitrators come within web or scram range? Unless they got dropped on their heads when they were babies... repeatedly.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Reppyk
The Black Shell
#38 - 2012-05-06 09:52:37 UTC
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
All of the other EAS are complete garbage.
And one day you'll met a good keres pilot. Point+damp outside of your locking & drone control range.

It's nasty.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Tozmeister
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-05-06 10:20:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tozmeister
Reppyk wrote:
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
All of the other EAS are complete garbage.
And one day you'll met a good keres pilot. Point+damp outside of your locking & drone control range.

It's nasty.



This.

You realise a tripple damping keres would have you down to 16km lock range?

1v14 "but I lost because of Kitsune..."


Edit:- tripple scan res scripts would have given you a lock time less than half that of a unfitted caldari Titan (20.9mm vs 43.8mm, EFT)

Also, you said you have beat these odds before, got an API verified killboard link?
Death Toll007
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-05-06 14:48:52 UTC
-1
Whine thread is whine thread.

-DT