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Easy solution to tech 2 BPO issue

First post
Author
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-05-04 16:11:22 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
there's nothing wrong with T2 BPO.

You weren't around before invention were you?
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#22 - 2012-05-04 16:21:17 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
this is "Brewlar Kuvakei" btw. and a part of his Crusade against T2 BPO`s.


plu close this thread anyway, there are 3 threads alread that he is shitting up with his T2BPO moaning already https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=93154&find=unread



It's not but I'm glad its spreading. I have my post and to be fair I don't think T2BPO needs more than one post in Science and industry at anyone time.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-05-04 16:30:58 UTC
Morgan Dinn wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Morgan Dinn wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
there's nothing wrong with T2 BPO.


Verry true... but everyone should have a chance to get one.
So until that happens there is a problem.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=278

or

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=279

Cool


And how many orders of Tech 2 prints did you find in there. I did say EVERYONE.

you mean you want CCP to add literally 300000 T2 BPO to the game??? Shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#24 - 2012-05-04 16:31:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
I have many gripes with T2BPO that can be read in my post, listening to arguments against T2BPO and those that support them I believe it makes zero sense that the T2BPO can can under cut invention. When the T2BPO undercuts invention in items where the BPO can supply all of the demand it leaves no scope for inventors in this unit which I feel is fundemntally wrong. One suggestion is that invention should inherits the T1BPO research allowing it to compete alongside the T2BPO.

CCP by allowing T2BPO owners to easily craft items with zero effort that undermine the more complex invention system have gimped their crafting system that was otherwise a brilliant idea.

Boosting invention up to T2BPO levels would allow inventors to compete in every market while in no way hampering the manufacture of T2BPO owners. With the changes to data cores CCP has the perfect opportunity to buff invention to compete with T2BPO.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-05-04 16:34:04 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
...When the T2BPO undercuts invention in items where the BPO can supply all of the demand....

can you give 1 real example of such item?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#26 - 2012-05-04 16:41:05 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
...When the T2BPO undercuts invention in items where the BPO can supply all of the demand....

can you give 1 real example of such item?



Yes
http://crackerjax.org/gwiki/GoonWIki/wiki.goonfleet.com/Making_T2_Ships.html
Here is a nice goon wiki on T2 Ships

For instance highly traded ships such as Hulks will have scope for inventors where as the less popular T2 ships there is zero scope for invention and the T2BPO owner/s have this market completely cornered as they are able to sell cheaper than the cost of production to an inventor.
Haulie Berry
#27 - 2012-05-04 16:42:18 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
...When the T2BPO undercuts invention in items where the BPO can supply all of the demand....

can you give 1 real example of such item?



Oh, oh, I can! I can!

50mm reinforced steel plate IIs!
Or... uhm...

Oh, I know. Cargo scanner IIs?

Ship scanner IIs?

Small smartbomb IIs?

You may be noticing a trend here in that they are all things that nobody uses because they are worthless. Basically, there's a big fat juicy steak on the table with enough for everyone, and Brewlar is crying over someone else getting an extra cucumber slice on their salad.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#28 - 2012-05-04 16:57:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
Haulie Berry wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
...When the T2BPO undercuts invention in items where the BPO can supply all of the demand....

can you give 1 real example of such item?



Oh, oh, I can! I can!

50mm reinforced steel plate IIs!
Or... uhm...

Oh, I know. Cargo scanner IIs?

Ship scanner IIs?

Small smartbomb IIs?

You may be noticing a trend here in that they are all things that nobody uses because they are worthless. Basically, there's a big fat juicy steak on the table with enough for everyone, and Brewlar is crying over someone else getting an extra cucumber slice on their salad.


All the items you mentioned are produced by T2BPO's at profit even if they sell like crap. However inventors can not sell these at profit as it costs more to invent them than the BPO owner is selling them at. T2 Armour plates are gimped by rolled Tungsten both for inventors and BPO owners.

You are crying because you know what a powerful effect T2BPO have in ISK making for their owners/ alliances, CCP knows this and that is why they don't release figures for them. However as there currently exists a multitude of posts regarding T2BPO's over the years CCP must acknowledge that they need to be either removed or gimped by invention. If CCP wants eve to grow and '' EVE is real'' it'll have to stop giving hand outs to pet players and alliances that place them above other players. let them compete fairly and the better side win.
Haulie Berry
#29 - 2012-05-04 17:14:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:


All the items you mentioned are produced by T2BPO's at profit even if they sell like crap. However inventors can not sell these at profit as it costs more to invent them than the BPO owner is selling them at. T2 Armour plates are gimped by rolled Tungsten both for inventors and BPO owners.


Yeah? And? So what? The approximate (daily volume*avg daily price) monthly revenue of 50mm steel plate II sales in Jita is less than 40 million.

That's revenue. If I can make 2-3 billion in half a week (and that's not revenue - that's *profit*), why am I supposed to do anything other than laugh at 40 million in revenue? And do feel free to figure out how much profit that yields. Should be good for a laugh.

Quote:
You are crying because you know what a powerful effect T2BPO have in ISK making for their owners/ alliances,


I don't own any BPOs, I'm not in an alliance, and hell, my corp? It's just me. I assure you, it is entirely possible to think you and your ideas are unmitigated stupidity without personally having a horse in the race.
Katalci
Kismesis
#30 - 2012-05-04 17:17:50 UTC
Joran Dravius wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
there's nothing wrong with T2 BPO.

You weren't around before invention were you?

You aren't very good at reading comprehension are you? He said "there's", as in, "there is", not "there was".
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-05-04 17:35:01 UTC
Keia Nomesteturj wrote:


There's a difference between a player-controlled market, and a market controlled by a few players.


Thats the curse of capitalism, deal with it.


also Happy first post ever, again Roll

shar'ra phone home

Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#32 - 2012-05-04 18:36:13 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
...When the T2BPO undercuts invention in items where the BPO can supply all of the demand....

can you give 1 real example of such item?



Oh, oh, I can! I can!

50mm reinforced steel plate IIs!
Or... uhm...

Oh, I know. Cargo scanner IIs?

Ship scanner IIs?

Small smartbomb IIs?

You may be noticing a trend here in that they are all things that nobody uses because they are worthless. Basically, there's a big fat juicy steak on the table with enough for everyone, and Brewlar is crying over someone else getting an extra cucumber slice on their salad.


All the items you mentioned are produced by T2BPO's at profit even if they sell like crap. However inventors can not sell these at profit as it costs more to invent them than the BPO owner is selling them at. T2 Armour plates are gimped by rolled Tungsten both for inventors and BPO owners.

You are crying because you know what a powerful effect T2BPO have in ISK making for their owners/ alliances, CCP knows this and that is why they don't release figures for them. However as there currently exists a multitude of posts regarding T2BPO's over the years CCP must acknowledge that they need to be either removed or gimped by invention. If CCP wants eve to grow and '' EVE is real'' it'll have to stop giving hand outs to pet players and alliances that place them above other players. let them compete fairly and the better side win.

Christ, here we go again. You are a broken record man. You made your point and no one agrees with you that didn't already. Give it a rest.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder

shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-05-04 19:30:05 UTC  |  Edited by: shar'ra matcevsovski
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
this is "Brewlar Kuvakei" btw. and a part of his Crusade against T2 BPO`s.


plu close this thread anyway, there are 3 threads alread that he is shitting up with his T2BPO moaning already https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=93154&find=unread



It's not but I'm glad its spreading. I have my post and to be fair I don't think T2BPO needs more than one post in Science and industry at anyone time.



with "spreading aorund" do you mean the very special missunderstanding of the Industry you have, or the also quite unique form of bad grammer that you both have? but yea totally not your alt.


Quote:
You made your point and no one agrees with you that didn't already. Give it a rest.


his alts did several times


This thread has never been about improving anything realy, its just your poor atempt to stop botehrs beeing succesfull aswell.


for the record; I do own a few Ship T2 BPO`s (bought them for a lot of hard earned isk) but I make about twice of that with inventions...

shar'ra phone home

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#34 - 2012-05-04 19:39:32 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
this is "Brewlar Kuvakei" btw. and a part of his Crusade against T2 BPO`s.


plu close this thread anyway, there are 3 threads alread that he is shitting up with his T2BPO moaning already https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=93154&find=unread



It's not but I'm glad its spreading. I have my post and to be fair I don't think T2BPO needs more than one post in Science and industry at anyone time.



with "spreading aorund" do you mean the very special missunderstanding of the Industry you have, or the also quite unique form of bad grammer that you both have? but yea totally not your alt.


Quote:
You made your point and no one agrees with you that didn't already. Give it a rest.


his alts did several times


This thread has never been about improving anything realy, its just your poor atempt to stop botehrs beeing succesfull aswell.


for the record; I do own a few Ship T2 BPO`s (bought them for a lot of hard earned isk) but I make about twice of that with inventions...



I've never posted with any other char than this one regarding T2BPO. Yeah my English spelling is terrible and eve in game browser does not have spell check.
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-05-04 19:49:26 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
If CCP wants eve to grow and '' EVE is real'' it'll have to stop giving hand outs to pet players and alliances that place them above other players. let them compete fairly and the better side win.


Man, corruption is the most real thing about EVE! What don't you get about this? Bribery and kick-backs and dirty, backroom deals are selling points, not issues. All sorts of games let you pretend to be involved in intrigue. What sounds better, a +5 bonus to your character sheet's Influence Rating, or actually gaining more influence?

How ******* boring would this game be if everybody was a model citizen? This game needs bastards to make it interesting, otherwise it's just an office job. And you can't have bastards without the ability to play crooked. And you don't make a game where you can play crooked by refereeing a level playing field.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#36 - 2012-05-04 19:52:18 UTC
CCP Diagoras wrote:
The only markets where T2 BPOs have a significant impact are where there is little demand for item.
Kesker
The Sagan Clan
#37 - 2012-05-04 21:52:58 UTC
Salo Aldeland wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
If CCP wants eve to grow and '' EVE is real'' it'll have to stop giving hand outs to pet players and alliances that place them above other players. let them compete fairly and the better side win.


Man, corruption is the most real thing about EVE! What don't you get about this? Bribery and kick-backs and dirty, backroom deals are selling points, not issues. All sorts of games let you pretend to be involved in intrigue. What sounds better, a +5 bonus to your character sheet's Influence Rating, or actually gaining more influence?

How ******* boring would this game be if everybody was a model citizen? This game needs bastards to make it interesting, otherwise it's just an office job. And you can't have bastards without the ability to play crooked. And you don't make a game where you can play crooked by refereeing a level playing field.


The only problem ... the crooked are supported by a lead designer.

Now aside from that one comment, I'll say I've seen some good suggestions here.

1. Allowing research of T1 BPO's to actually affect the ME/PE outcome of T2 BPC's
2. Nerf the T2 BPO's. Give them -4/-4 to start with. Then they can try to get better runs using decrypters.

Ok, I can't resist a couple more comments...

We know CCP will not nerf the T2 BPO's because that would be nerfing their null sec buddies. (Perhaps even nerfing his own assets.) Remember, they want to move T2 production to low sec or null sec (datacore changes). So, it's ok to nerf high sec T2 production even greater, but not touch anything to do with what was an obvious mistake back in the day. Not to mention, likely rigged lotteries.

Just remember everyone, EvE isn't like a national sweepstakes where the employees and their families are not allowed to play. In this case, they are encouraged.
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-05-04 22:50:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Salo Aldeland
"The only problem ... the crooked are supported by a lead designer."

"Just remember everyone, EvE isn't like a national sweepstakes where the employees and their families are not allowed to play. In this case, they are encouraged."

"EVE is like one of those pub quizzes where the bar girls play a team, win and take the prize money because they're sucking off the quiz master who gave them the answers."

Yes! You understand perfectly! EVE's most remarkable feat is blowuping up the boundary of what activities are and aren't part of playing the game. It's pretty god damned impressive, really. They can fiddle with game tunables all you like, it ain't going to change the fact that there are players out there that hold vast and varied advantages that have nothing to do with what's digitally represented in a piece of software. It's being played out as interactions between people even when they're miles away from their computers. Pushing that envelope as far as it can go is a pretty awesome statement about games. It's clearly a work of art. That isn't to say you shouldn't be able to interpret it differently or dislike it vehemently. In the internet age, it's even expected that you can take part in its creation.

But are you really asking to nerf blowjobs? That it shouldn't matter who you know? Just because EVE subverts the genre and the medium doesn't mean it should abandon its vision to be more like what you expect from a game.
Ertai Vodalion
LifeLine Solutions
#39 - 2012-05-05 08:58:00 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
...When the T2BPO undercuts invention in items where the BPO can supply all of the demand....

can you give 1 real example of such item?



Oh, oh, I can! I can!

50mm reinforced steel plate IIs!
Or... uhm...

Oh, I know. Cargo scanner IIs?

Ship scanner IIs?

Small smartbomb IIs?

You may be noticing a trend here in that they are all things that nobody uses because they are worthless. Basically, there's a big fat juicy steak on the table with enough for everyone, and Brewlar is crying over someone else getting an extra cucumber slice on their salad.


All the items you mentioned are produced by T2BPO's at profit even if they sell like crap. However inventors can not sell these at profit as it costs more to invent them than the BPO owner is selling them at. T2 Armour plates are gimped by rolled Tungsten both for inventors and BPO owners.

You are crying because you know what a powerful effect T2BPO have in ISK making for their owners/ alliances, CCP knows this and that is why they don't release figures for them. However as there currently exists a multitude of posts regarding T2BPO's over the years CCP must acknowledge that they need to be either removed or gimped by invention. If CCP wants eve to grow and '' EVE is real'' it'll have to stop giving hand outs to pet players and alliances that place them above other players. let them compete fairly and the better side win.


you both are obvious experts in regards to T2 BPOs and invention ..

Cargo & Ship Scanner II have no T2 BPOs
they are 2 of the 8 or 10 items that were "only" inventable when invention was introduced. (nowadays it´s a lot more).
It was Fun while it lasted - for the first 2 years or so these were hardly ever invented (especially passive targeter and stuff) until some moron posted a list of these items into this Forum and the market got ruined within a few days.

cheers - Ertai




Velicitia
XS Tech
#40 - 2012-05-05 11:32:40 UTC
Joran Dravius wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
there's nothing wrong with T2 BPO.

You weren't around before invention were you?


The lottery was meh from what I hear ... but the real trouble was T20...

Anyway, that's long gone, and now there is nothing wrong with people having T2 BPOs ... or the BPOs themselves. Sure, I'm just as ::jealous:: as the next guy that I don't have a hulk ... but, meh maybe I'll be spacerich enough to purchase one of the other "semi-good" ones when they come up for sale.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia