Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Cute straw man. The amount of SP that a character has nothing to do with "combat ability", the experience that a player possess is everything.

I am surprised that someone like you, hiding in a NPC corp even after two years even dares mention risk.

Slippery slope is only a fallacy if there's no logical connection to the conclusion. If we use the same argument you're using here ("X should be removed because X causes loss which discourages PvP", where X is implant loss) and apply it broadly to eve, we should remove ship loss, skill loss, clone costs, and every source of loss in game. Your argument is, quite simply, loss is bad, therefore remove loss. That you've chosen to limit it to just implants here does not make it invalid to talk about the implications.

Moreover, the cost scaling is optional. No one's forcing +5s into your head every time you get podded. +4s are dirt cheap and cost less than your average BS. +1/2s are basically nothing, even for a newbie who should have a few million just out of the tutorials.

It's already been pointed out that jump clones are an incomplete solution, seemingly stemming from a lack of understanding that one of the ways this issue manifests itself is people staying in safe areas with max learning implants to avoid risk and retain learning bonuses. Implants in another clone don't help you. As was stated rather succinctly:

All the talk of risk vs reward and yet we have a mechanic that rewards the risk averse.

There's nothing wrong with dying being serious and meaningful. But mining implants are for mining, PvP implants are for PvP, and learning implants are for learning. Two of these are actual gameplay, can you guess which ones?

Yes, but the problem was, that people don't want to go in to risky situations because they fear an expensive loss. Removing learning implants doesn't solve that problem. It mitigates the initial problem, but mainly retains it and just shifts the problem around. This is why it's a bad solution to the proposed problem.

In my view the problem isn't training implants. They are the most obvious symptom. The problem is that you're married to your implant set for a mandatory 24h period. Think of it as being only able to switch ship fitting once during a 24h period. The solution isn't to fidle with modules to make PvP friendly fittings the norm, but to remove the artificial limitation, which is the cause of the entire problem. This limitation makes choosing the clone based on your current activity impossible, since you can't predict what happens in that 24h and you can't specialize your implants to every activity you want to do during that period. This pushes people to use good general purpose clones, that are the best during the normal expected gameplay. In many cases this heavily favors maximum training speed implants or PvE/industry hardwirings and causes the problems.

One solution would be to turn implant sets to something that are easily and conveniently changable. This way the entire problem is severly reduced with ALL implants. Since implants are permanent, the simple solution is allowing several implant clones, making access to them easier, so new players can get/afford them too(Maybe one free implant clone for everyone) and making local clone switching similar to ship switching, where you have many clones for your various different activities.

It's fun to pod people with +5s in empire.

There were a few of those killmails obtained in Burn Jita and it was pretty great.

Expensive biomass?

Considering the subject matter, saying it was posted better previously is pretty much like saying mining is better than missioning.

I said way back in the day that the removal of learning skills would lead down the slippery slope to things like this. Ever since I started playing this game almost four years ago, all I have heard is that Eve Online is a game of consequences. The results of your choices mean something. Just like if I choose to take my money that is for the electric, and go eat at a very expensive restaraunt followed by a night of partying at a club, the result should be my electric getting turned off for non-payment. Or if I drink mercury, I should die. Stuff like that, you know?

The removal of learning skills removed consequences from the game. Do you focus on learning skills, get them out of the way now? Do you juggle them with other skills in an attempt to find a balance in those initial weeks and months? Or do you ignore them completely, advancing quickly in the short term, but putting oneself at a disadvantage in the long term. Whatever choice you made, there was a consequence for that choice. Now, that consequence is a long distant memory.

And now people want to nix 1-5 implants. One less consequence to worry about, no cause and effect to have to accept, just some BS about how they hold people back from going off into nulsec and getting into pvp. Firstly, people hold people back from those things, not implants. Second, removing those implants will just remove a choice, a consequence, a result...nothing more.

Somwhow though, I'm really not surprised by this...people want easier, less choice, less consequence. You can see it everywhere in this game these days. Nerf it if you can't hit the I-Win button, for example. As time progresses, everything has gotten easier. Players now have it pretty easy compared to when I started. Back then, the character creation process was an in-depth thing, and after you allocated your attribute points, you were locked in. None of this neural remap crap. You had made your choice, and you had to live with it. There's that whole consequence thing again.

So take them out. Be my guest. Just remember that you wanted less choice, less consequence. You wanted your EZ mode, hopefully you get it. Ironically though, removing those 4s and 5s will make those KMs just a little less shiny, so there's that.

I'm not too surprised the thought originally came from a sect wanting to homogenize the game further.

no no the point is to keep everything but the ones that just decrease learning time

EVE is not dumbed down without learning skills, but they are basically what the game is. Smart intelligent moves that may be boring but will help you progress in the long run. While many people may enjoy many aspects of the game in their own way, that is essentially what the entire game is.