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Tilting at windmills

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Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#341 - 2012-05-05 02:05:29 UTC
I feel like I've failed the highsec carebears. Really. I mean, of course you are second class citizens of new eden... but what have I done to make you feel like second class citizens? Not enough. Not nearly enough. After the wardec mechanic goes live I pledge to make the best effort I can (given my time constraints and general apathy towards you) to make you feel persecuted and limited in not only your ISK but your general sense of toon worth. I genuinely hope others follow suit. Think about the carebears people. They are all our responsibility.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Loike
Pyramid Celestial
#342 - 2012-05-05 02:11:33 UTC
I got to the part where he said Goons are the 1% and had to stop
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#343 - 2012-05-05 02:13:34 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Esan Vartesa wrote:
The fact that nullers have taken to calling themselves the 1% with pride tells you everything you need to know about them.


So, you 99%'er, why not protest it by getting all the 99% people in eve and occupying VFK? Show those nullbears who's boss!

Hmmmmmm, interesting thought...

Lets see, TEST + GSF (or whatever they go by now) = CFC.

Who in the hell is going to (legitimately) threaten their space? I don't see it happening. Seriously, Goons/Test are the biggest fish in the tank. I don't think their is another shark out there that can/would take them out.


So why bother?

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Styx Cyc
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#344 - 2012-05-05 02:18:56 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
As usual, there appears to be this usual idea that people in HS are all there because they want to be.


Do not confuse the incursioning shiney pilot with the people who only have at most an hour to play (if they are lucky). An hour to run a level 4 mission or move ships around or at least, if there is less time, at a bare minimum, hitting a belt and killing a few rats just so not to forget how to play the game.


This is also why most of HS does not vote or "care" either. Who has time?


Yes there are people who not only work for a living (gasp horrors! Why can't we all be semi-retired like Mittani?) and on top of that, have a host of other things to do.


Yes, it's possible that a video game is not the center of a player's life. Go figure. Sometimes the hair gotta come off the neck, right?

For a lot of people, this game is Skill Queue Online too. Sometimes I go for months without playing. Meanwhile, in RL, I STILL have a long list of things to do that are not going to get done if I sit at a computer playing games.

Now, am I to be punished for having a life? Should the game be made harder for me? Well, if that's the attitude, it changes nothing considering who is having that attitude. It's like a short bus full of window-lickers at the corner and they are all pointing and laughing at you. Yeah, gonna invest energy in that, right.




You just described a few concepts too hard to understand for most of 4chanSwarm, but kudos for trying.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#345 - 2012-05-05 02:41:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Doesn't the argument of low/null/WH living people having alts have the potential to go the other way?
Maybe, but going by the “highsec silent majority” POV, they've disqualified themselves by showing that they can indeed imagine playing outside of highsec, which is exactly what that silent majority will not do.

Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
So yes, you said exactly that.
…you mean aside from your own quotes and you own admission that I didn't? No, I did not. You'll have to go back and edit both your own and my posts to make that happen (which, for one, you can't, and for another, will be blatantly obvious in the edit history at this point). You can repeat your strawman as much as you like — it doesn't become any less of a strawman and any less of a blatant and obvious lie because of it. It only exposes your troll nature further, and you probably don't want that to happen more than it already has.

Quote:
You can't phase me with reality denial.
You're confusing me with you. You're the one denying what you yourself wrote (and quoted… twice).


My admission that you said 75% of the time not 90% of the time?

You do realize I mocked how stupid that argument was in my very first reply?

There is very little fundamental different between:
"Someone who spends 75% of his time in High Sec is "not high sec" and
"Someone who spends 90% of his time in High Sec is "not high sec".

Both are silly. But if Ms. Tippia wishes to grace us with an EXACT percentage of time that a player must spend in High Sec in order to be considered "High Sec" then by all means, milady, inform us as to the exact percentage. To three decimal places, please.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#346 - 2012-05-05 02:46:07 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
Esan Vartesa wrote:
The fact that nullers have taken to calling themselves the 1% with pride tells you everything you need to know about them.


So, you 99%'er, why not protest it by getting all the 99% people in eve and occupying VFK? Show those nullbears who's boss!

Hmmmmmm, interesting thought...

Lets see, TEST + GSF (or whatever they go by now) = CFC.

Who in the hell is going to (legitimately) threaten their space? I don't see it happening. Seriously, Goons/Test are the biggest fish in the tank. I don't think their is another shark out there that can/would take them out.


So why bother?


All these butthurt bears going on about how the big mean goonies are being so mean and having all the space. It's silly to expect them to do something about it themselves instead of running to Mommy CCP's skirt and begging her to make the mean bullies go away.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Shian Yang
#347 - 2012-05-05 03:02:46 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
All these butthurt bears going on about how the big mean goonies are being so mean and having all the space. It's silly to expect them to do something about it themselves instead of running to Mommy CCP's skirt and begging her to make the mean bullies go away.


Greetings capsuleer Davion,

Althought the veracity of capsuleer Jessie-A Tassik words are in doubt. Well. I should not say they are in doubt. His words cannot be trusted. There is no doubt about that.

But if we assume, no matter how farfetched this may be, that he is correct in saying the majority of players reside and are safe and secure, wrapped in the warm bosom of mother CONCORD ...

Surely they would have the numbers to smash such a paltry alliance as CFC?

Regards,

Shian Yang
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#348 - 2012-05-05 03:07:58 UTC
Shian Yang wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
All these butthurt bears going on about how the big mean goonies are being so mean and having all the space. It's silly to expect them to do something about it themselves instead of running to Mommy CCP's skirt and begging her to make the mean bullies go away.


Greetings capsuleer Davion,

Althought the veracity of capsuleer Jessie-A Tassik words are in doubt. Well. I should not say they are in doubt. His words cannot be trusted. There is no doubt about that.

But if we assume, no matter how farfetched this may be, that he is correct in saying the majority of players reside and are safe and secure, wrapped in the warm bosom of mother CONCORD ...

Surely they would have the numbers to smash such a paltry alliance as CFC?

Regards,

Shian Yang


That's the thing. I think they DO have the numbers to not only smash Deklein to bits, but to also scatter it's remnants to the winds. But they won't do it. They won't join together under one banner to get in their spaceships and actually bring the fight to VFK. Instead they'll come on the forums and whine, and go to CCP and whine until they get their way.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#349 - 2012-05-05 11:11:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Lapine Davion wrote:
All these butthurt bears going on about how the big mean goonies are being so mean and having all the space. It's silly to expect them to do something about it themselves instead of running to Mommy CCP's skirt and begging her to make the mean bullies go away.

Are you directing that at me?

FWIW - I haven't *lived* in hi-sec (other than short breaks) since Nov. 2008...

What's really silly is thinking that anyone is a threat to CFC - with the *possible* exception of some of the larger non-allied groups in Nullsec already.

Who (in all honesty) really believes that hi-sec dwellers pose a serious risk to CFC? I honestly don't see it.

So regardless of anything else, there are going to be CFC messing about in hi-sec, because there in truth is no more risk to their space... You didn't see any of this going on when Goons/friends were fighting the Evil Empire (BoB), because there was risk... Goons have become the "900 pound gorilla" in space...

All the "OPEC" coalition does is reinforce that idea (right or wrong) throughout Eve.


And that is part of the reason why Hi-sec'rs won't organize to kick anyone out of their space, or off the CSM. OP is dreaming...


Tilting @ windmills indeed....

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Sandra Vellocet
Extended Industries
#350 - 2012-05-05 11:34:34 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
But who am I kidding. It won't happen. High sec players will just quit once all the changes coming down the pipe are implemented. Heck, I will likely have packed it in myself, rather than waste my time fighting lost battles in and out of game.

High sec players, consider this a warning for you: Organize now. The next CSM may be your last chance to save high sec in some playable format.


Speaking for myself, I love to mine. More precisely, I love to mine high sec. If things change so much to the extent that I have to stop mining and start pvp'n or even mining low/null... so be it. I dont care, at the end of the day I signed up to play a space ship game and I will adapt accordingly, no big deal... for me anyway.

My two cents.
Udonor
Doomheim
#351 - 2012-05-05 11:50:33 UTC
Quit complaining. Null sec is a required move for hardware balance as well as game vision.

The truth is most high sec players have no issues with gankers or any CCP changes. Again its a vocal few trying to spoil things. Most high sec are low activity players (<32 hours per month) who simply can't be bothered to move to null sec unless something forces them there. However, once moved they will be fine with being in null sec.

LOL - CCP should just write a BIRTHDAY macro that puts all your stuff in some NPC rat stations deep in null sec on your accounts 1st birthday. And move all jump clones to various open stations about null sec. Except moved people probably would not spread out for from rats areas. But CCP could easily write it into EVE story as "population control", medical clone movement due to corp subdivision bankruptcy settlement, result of a records error, etc.

In the meantime...
If high sec players wants something done about hi sec piracy -- just organize a Burn Jita like campaign and wardec them out of existence. For those who don't understand the griefing policy - its only against the rules if one person or very small small group does it. Sure pirates are general better lead and better equipped for PVP -- but you claim there is 70% of accounts against 0.1%.
Josef Djugashvilis
#352 - 2012-05-05 12:01:40 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Shian Yang wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
All these butthurt bears going on about how the big mean goonies are being so mean and having all the space. It's silly to expect them to do something about it themselves instead of running to Mommy CCP's skirt and begging her to make the mean bullies go away.


Greetings capsuleer Davion,

Althought the veracity of capsuleer Jessie-A Tassik words are in doubt. Well. I should not say they are in doubt. His words cannot be trusted. There is no doubt about that.

But if we assume, no matter how farfetched this may be, that he is correct in saying the majority of players reside and are safe and secure, wrapped in the warm bosom of mother CONCORD ...

Surely they would have the numbers to smash such a paltry alliance as CFC?

Regards,

Shian Yang


That's the thing. I think they DO have the numbers to not only smash Deklein to bits, but to also scatter it's remnants to the winds. But they won't do it. They won't join together under one banner to get in their spaceships and actually bring the fight to VFK. Instead they'll come on the forums and whine, and go to CCP and whine until they get their way.



So, the solution for those hi-sec players who do not wish to take part in alliance warfare, is to form an alliance and attack VFK.

Most hi-sec players do not actually complain about ganking etc, it is simply accepted as part of Eve.

There are far more folk from 0.0 posting to complain about hi-sec players, than there are hi-sec players complaining about 0.0 players.

This is not a signature.
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#353 - 2012-05-05 12:57:22 UTC
I'd rather be "tilting" at fat chicks, amirite?

hi5s hi5s
Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#354 - 2012-05-05 13:23:14 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
Shian Yang wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
All these butthurt bears going on about how the big mean goonies are being so mean and having all the space. It's silly to expect them to do something about it themselves instead of running to Mommy CCP's skirt and begging her to make the mean bullies go away.


Greetings capsuleer Davion,

Althought the veracity of capsuleer Jessie-A Tassik words are in doubt. Well. I should not say they are in doubt. His words cannot be trusted. There is no doubt about that.

But if we assume, no matter how farfetched this may be, that he is correct in saying the majority of players reside and are safe and secure, wrapped in the warm bosom of mother CONCORD ...

Surely they would have the numbers to smash such a paltry alliance as CFC?

Regards,

Shian Yang


That's the thing. I think they DO have the numbers to not only smash Deklein to bits, but to also scatter it's remnants to the winds. But they won't do it. They won't join together under one banner to get in their spaceships and actually bring the fight to VFK. Instead they'll come on the forums and whine, and go to CCP and whine until they get their way.



So, the solution for those hi-sec players who do not wish to take part in alliance warfare, is to form an alliance and attack VFK.

Most hi-sec players do not actually complain about ganking etc, it is simply accepted as part of Eve.

There are far more folk from 0.0 posting to complain about hi-sec players, than there are hi-sec players complaining about 0.0 players.



Could you show me all these threads that are comlaining about hi-sec right now? I see 12 complaint threads by Hi-Sec players complaining about mechanics or Goons and 0 threads by Nullsec people complaining about something else.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#355 - 2012-05-05 13:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigurd Sig Hansen
Weaselior wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
Cleaning this thread of off topic posts, rants and personal attacks. You can help me by not putting them there in the first place.

where's the fun in that


see, just about every Goon post is trolling, why do they get immunity...


oh yeah, CCP BFFs..

sorry continue

Polly Oxford wrote:


Could you show me all these threads that are comlaining about hi-sec right now? I see 12 complaint threads by Hi-Sec players complaining about mechanics or Goons and 0 threads by Nullsec people complaining about something else.


So what youre saying is there is more outcry to do something about Goons than anything else? Maybe they should work on... oh wait BFFs. nvm

Lapine Davion wrote:


That's the thing. I think they DO have the numbers to not only smash Deklein to bits, but to also scatter it's remnants to the winds. But they won't do it. They won't join together under one banner to get in their spaceships and actually bring the fight to VFK. Instead they'll come on the forums and whine, and go to CCP and whine until they get their way.


and/or just leave when they get tired of the ****. So when CCP sees a hit to their wallet, they'll knee-jerk overreact like they always do and reenforce that
Quote:
see what they do not what they say
is in full force, like the summer of QQ

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
#356 - 2012-05-05 13:56:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Nick Bison
Polly Oxford wrote:

Could you show me all these threads that are comlaining about hi-sec right now? I see 12 complaint threads by Hi-Sec players complaining about mechanics or Goons and 0 threads by Nullsec people complaining about something else.


That the Null-bears have quit complaining about their issues in 0.0 is quite interesting. More about that later ...

Fixing null is not in the goonie mantra. They want to destroy our game. To that end, use their co-opted influence to have the direction of CCP toward HiSec changed enough to ruin it for the massive numbers of casual players.
Side Note: Personally, I liked the whole "Burn Jita" and the recurring Hulkageddons ... those add content.

Back to fixing null. a reason to go to war, power projection and area influence. Basically to give nullbears a reason to fight in null other than the occasional small roam (aka blue ball ops)
- tech moons should be spread about better.
- Jump drive ranges reduced 25%
- Remove all Jump Bridges (makes Eve big again among other things)
- Sov grind and removal needs a serious relook. Wish I had a solution ...
- Reduce mineral refine loss at Outposts and POS Refinery arrays

There are a myriad of other items that have been brought up all over the forums on fixing null. But, basically it seems the residents of null have become stagnant and looking for something to do. Can't do anything in null so ... they go to HiSec.

Bottom line, fix null and leave HiSec alone.

[Edit] had to fix my crappy typing

Nothing clever at this time.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#357 - 2012-05-05 15:44:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Nick Bison wrote:
Fixing null is not in the goonie mantra. They want to destroy our game. To that end, use their co-opted influence to have the direction of CCP toward HiSec changed enough to ruin it for the massive numbers of casual players.


0.0 folks are pretty damned casual themselves. How it takes 24 hours to destroy a structure, so they can find the time to log in, is representative of that.

Not to mention how when you go to the space held by an alliance of thousands of players, it's practically empty.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#358 - 2012-05-05 17:18:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Reese
Post Above wrote:
0.0 folks are pretty damned casual themselves. How it takes 24 hours to destroy a structure, so they can find the time to log in, is representative of that.

Not to mention how when you go to the space held by an alliance of thousands of players, it's practically empty.



I think the bigger part of sov is the mechanics themselves. Ideally the mechanics of 0.0 should make it feel like your own private empire. For example, there is no reason why goonspace shouldnt have or need a strong and complex system to give that populated high security feel. The idea of an empire needing infrastructure was tossed around prior to the PI stuff where sov and the like need a population base to support it, and they need support back.

So the two ways to control space, was either throwing isk at it, or a strong industrial base. Make holding sov more than just big guns. Military fist can work, but if the infrastructure your neighbour has set up is a stronger influence, that would make things interesting. Course in the end might is right, but the idea of these massive multiregional alliances just make eve feel a bit too small in nullsec.

Make Nullsec able to function in a more dense system by more complexity to sov without more tedium would be really nice. Able to have +100 members of your alliance in a system with ability to set up your own security (Player owned gate guns?) would be nice to have. Just to make it so less is more somehow. Nothing special, but I like the image of it no matter how it would work.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Vince Snetterton
#359 - 2012-05-06 17:45:16 UTC
Well, as I posted earlier, someone emailed me about creating some kind of external site for high sec players.
I have responded back and copied Issler Dainze, who is currently a CSM member with a high sec focus. (My apologies to Issler. When I was going over the CSM candidacies, I missed her's somehow.)

We shall see where this leads.

Frankly, as per my initial post, I have no illusions about the probability of rallying the high sec community to common cause.
I know that there are other high sec centric sites and I am unsure of their ability to focus the attention of the high sec community.
But there is nothing wrong in discussing it and if anything can be done to focus the high community's ire and slow down the null sec zealot contingent, that would be worthy.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#360 - 2012-05-06 17:52:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Bane Necran wrote:
Nick Bison wrote:
Fixing null is not in the goonie mantra. They want to destroy our game. To that end, use their co-opted influence to have the direction of CCP toward HiSec changed enough to ruin it for the massive numbers of casual players.


0.0 folks are pretty damned casual themselves. How it takes 24 hours to destroy a structure, so they can find the time to log in, is representative of that.

Not to mention how when you go to the space held by an alliance of thousands of players, it's practically empty.

A dreadnaught fleet can kill a POS from its reinforce cycle in less than their siege cycle.

Stations don't last too long under the guns and fighterbombers of a supercapital fleet, as well. Totally balanced.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?