These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

No more learning implants!
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2012-05-05 00:39:23 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Instead I think CCP should start looking at redesigning, or remove entirely, the necessary standing requirements to be able to have jump clones and let new players start with the skill with a small tutorial of what they do and how they work.

The only issue this doesn't resolve is the one the op is most referencing, avoiding risk as a result of not wanting diminished training capacity.

To put is simply, learning implants in another clone don't help my training speed, so if I am so concerned about skill training I'm going to try to minimize my time in lesser clones and participate less in activities which would provide strong benefits to being in the lesser clone.


I could argue the same mentality exists with those that doesn't risk being a legitimate target and therefor hides in NPC corps to avoid wardecs. No difference there either really.

Considering all of us have a finite amount of time in real-life, I prefer to make the skill training of my characters to be as optimal as possible until I can participate. I don't know about you but those are my thoughts on the matter.

While the NPC corp thing was probably meant to be a jab at me, you are half correct. There is also the issue of having no effing clue of how to find a decent player corp, but yes, wardec immunity is something that I count as a benefit.

As for the statement of having finite time and wanting to train optimally, that was exactly my point. See my 2nd point to Grimpak.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2012-05-05 00:40:56 UTC
Loike wrote:
Why is it that the people who know how to play this game are continuously being forced to give things up so the stupids can catch up? If you suck now with implants a few more sp aren't going to help your game at all....>>sp does not mean you win EVE, leave the 1% alone already.


More SP lets me try new things. That makes the game more interesting.
Loike
Pyramid Celestial
#83 - 2012-05-05 00:45:02 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Loike wrote:
Why is it that the people who know how to play this game are continuously being forced to give things up so the stupids can catch up? If you suck now with implants a few more sp aren't going to help your game at all....>>sp does not mean you win EVE, leave the 1% alone already.


More SP lets me try new things. That makes the game more interesting.


buy a new toon and stop wasting your time training where really all you are doing is reinventing the wheel...somewhere out there there is a poorly trained toon that you could buy for cheap
Loike
Pyramid Celestial
#84 - 2012-05-05 00:46:10 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Loike wrote:
all missing the point, sure sp is nice but tbh there are faster ways to get it then training, grow a set, make some isk buy a toon that is already skilled and stop whining...

Slightly off topic but shouldn't it be considered problematic when the solution an issue boils down to removing character progression and just buying your way to whatever you want?



no, stop thinking like a scrub
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-05-05 00:47:16 UTC
Loike wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Loike wrote:
Why is it that the people who know how to play this game are continuously being forced to give things up so the stupids can catch up? If you suck now with implants a few more sp aren't going to help your game at all....>>sp does not mean you win EVE, leave the 1% alone already.


More SP lets me try new things. That makes the game more interesting.


buy a new toon and stop wasting your time training where really all you are doing is reinventing the wheel...somewhere out there there is a poorly trained toon that you could buy for cheap

If it's poorly trained why would I buy it and why wouldn't I train it further if for some reason I did buy it? And how does that not put me back where I started?
Loike
Pyramid Celestial
#86 - 2012-05-05 00:47:35 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
removing learning implants.... wait what? what's the use of jump clones then?



It'd still get me from highsec to my base in nullsec in doublequick time.


get an actual corp and rent an office, death cloning is the best way to travel
ConranAntoni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-05-05 00:48:37 UTC
Thread has to be a troll, I know EvE has bags of stupid in all corners but to pour it into one thread is painful to see.

Empyrean Warriors - Recruiting now.
Loike
Pyramid Celestial
#88 - 2012-05-05 00:50:10 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Loike wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Loike wrote:
Why is it that the people who know how to play this game are continuously being forced to give things up so the stupids can catch up? If you suck now with implants a few more sp aren't going to help your game at all....>>sp does not mean you win EVE, leave the 1% alone already.


More SP lets me try new things. That makes the game more interesting.


buy a new toon and stop wasting your time training where really all you are doing is reinventing the wheel...somewhere out there there is a poorly trained toon that you could buy for cheap

If it's poorly trained why would I buy it and why wouldn't I train it further if for some reason I did buy it? And how does that not put me back where I started?


that poorly trained alt in waiting has more sp and is better trained then what you have, think of it as trading in your old unused gold scraps for some shinier bling, no one is suggesting you stop training (stupid scrub) what is being said is that there are toons out there available to be purchased that are already trained,so

go get some isk and buy one and stop whining
Son IamaDerp
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-05-05 00:50:14 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
removing learning implants.... wait what? what's the use of jump clones then?

Changing sets of hardwires?
Travel?

yeah that too, but still...
I see your point, but uh...yeah...
Loike
Pyramid Celestial
#90 - 2012-05-05 00:50:57 UTC
ConranAntoni wrote:
Thread has to be a troll, I know EvE has bags of stupid in all corners but to pour it into one thread is painful to see.



roll with the troll dude
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#91 - 2012-05-05 00:51:08 UTC
ConranAntoni wrote:
...I know EvE has bags of stupid in all corners but to pour it into one thread...



Ah well that explains why you showed up.

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#92 - 2012-05-05 00:55:43 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
removing learning implants.... wait what? what's the use of jump clones then?



It'd still get me from highsec to my base in nullsec in doublequick time.


And that is one of the major issues with JCs. Instant travel across Eve makes avoiding fights or potential fights much easier. That is bad btw.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2012-05-05 00:56:02 UTC
Loike wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Loike wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Loike wrote:
Why is it that the people who know how to play this game are continuously being forced to give things up so the stupids can catch up? If you suck now with implants a few more sp aren't going to help your game at all....>>sp does not mean you win EVE, leave the 1% alone already.


More SP lets me try new things. That makes the game more interesting.


buy a new toon and stop wasting your time training where really all you are doing is reinventing the wheel...somewhere out there there is a poorly trained toon that you could buy for cheap

If it's poorly trained why would I buy it and why wouldn't I train it further if for some reason I did buy it? And how does that not put me back where I started?


that poorly trained alt in waiting has more sp and is better trained then what you have, think of it as trading in your old unused gold scraps for some shinier bling, no one is suggesting you stop training (stupid scrub) what is being said is that there are toons out there available to be purchased that are already trained,so

go get some isk and buy one and stop whining

Last response since your short on thinking it through and long on insults. If I have to train the character I buy to get it to the point I want it then the implants will again be useful to me and and leave me back in the same situation I was trying to get around, which was needing implants to train faster to get where I want to be.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-05-05 00:56:26 UTC
Loike wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Loike wrote:
Why is it that the people who know how to play this game are continuously being forced to give things up so the stupids can catch up? If you suck now with implants a few more sp aren't going to help your game at all....>>sp does not mean you win EVE, leave the 1% alone already.


More SP lets me try new things. That makes the game more interesting.


buy a new toon and stop wasting your time training where really all you are doing is reinventing the wheel...somewhere out there there is a poorly trained toon that you could buy for cheap


So your solution to me being risk averse due to not having the ISK to easily replace my learning implants...is to buy another toon for ISK?
Sounds like you need better learning implants, mate.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-05-05 00:56:35 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:


also how would a new player even has access to jump clones? Maybe jump clones need to be a feature every player in eve can use no matter how poor or rich. old or young. That combined with a shorter timer would make a huge difference in the way newer players see and play the game.



You Morons just want to hop in a Capital on Day One and BLAP around.

FU...and I mean that sincerely.

If you don't have the patience for what EVE delivers....GTFO of my Sandbox.

If this is the new mindset of the newer players, it's time for us old timers to cash in and leave methinks.


yeah you are surely experiencing everything EVE has to offer by mining in hisec with hulks

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-05-05 00:59:22 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
removing learning implants.... wait what? what's the use of jump clones then?



It'd still get me from highsec to my base in nullsec in doublequick time.


And that is one of the major issues with JCs. Instant travel across Eve makes avoiding fights or potential fights much easier. That is bad btw.


Being able to travel to nullsec makes it easier for me to *avoid* fights? Ok brah...

PS, its the Covert Ops cloak that lets me easily avoid fights. The Jump Clone just saves me the 20+ jumps of tedium.
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
#97 - 2012-05-05 00:59:57 UTC
Learning implants are fine. Removing them would not create a magical paradise of endless pvp, because people are still in their heart of hearts afraid of losing (and will always be afraid of losing, even when the death penalties are zero).

Moreover, EVE needs loss. Removing that just steps us ever closer toward the endless field of boring PvPlite MMOs with no redeeming features and no lasting enjoyment.

Just, no.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#98 - 2012-05-05 01:04:46 UTC
Learning implants incentivize risk aversion. They should definitely be removed.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2012-05-05 01:07:11 UTC
Chaos Incarnate wrote:
Learning implants are fine. Removing them would not create a magical paradise of endless pvp, because people are still in their heart of hearts afraid of losing (and will always be afraid of losing, even when the death penalties are zero).

Moreover, EVE needs loss. Removing that just steps us ever closer toward the endless field of boring PvPlite MMOs with no redeeming features and no lasting enjoyment.

Just, no.


Pfft, slippery slope argument.
Also
Learning implants are bad because their cost scales poorly with that pilot's combat ability, and peaks relatively early.
Expensive high sp clone = higher combat ability(90% of the time anyway,)
Expensive hardwirings = higher combat ability
Expensive ship and fittings = higher combat ability

And all but the hardwirings can be changed on the fly whenever you want to go do something risky.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#100 - 2012-05-05 01:12:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
Takseen wrote:


Being able to travel to nullsec makes it easier for me to *avoid* fights? Ok brah...

PS, its the Covert Ops cloak that lets me easily avoid fights. The Jump Clone just saves me the 20+ jumps of tedium.


Brah makes you sound like an idiot. Many in null use JCs to jump back to empire to avoid fighting when their ratting grounds are camped, instead of fighting them off. It also causes less travel where you are vulnerable to being attacked. Cov Ops cloak is a way to bypass that but many still get caught due to tactics. With JCs these tactics are void since you just insta-jump.

Lastly if you are looking for fights why wouldn't you be in null to begin with?

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden