These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

No more learning implants!
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-05-04 23:57:00 UTC
removing learning implants.... wait what? what's the use of jump clones then?






not sure if srs or trollin'....

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Loike
Pyramid Celestial
#62 - 2012-05-04 23:57:01 UTC
Why is it that the people who know how to play this game are continuously being forced to give things up so the stupids can catch up? If you suck now with implants a few more sp aren't going to help your game at all....>>sp does not mean you win EVE, leave the 1% alone already.
Morrigu Storm
D'tael Contracts
#63 - 2012-05-04 23:57:05 UTC
I suppose you'll want to get rid of learning skills as well since the poor noobs could spend their time training more useful skills instead!
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Cat Scratch Fevers
#64 - 2012-05-04 23:57:35 UTC
OP is flapping in the wind.
So is this entire thread.

Nothing clever at this time.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-05-04 23:58:11 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

NO

Evil

Just because you get blown up with them in your non-JumpCloned Self because you are a terribad player............

I call monstrously GIGANTIC TROLL

And if not Troll.........GTFO.

Hilmar is laughing at your terrible idea.

Another brainless dweeb who thinks EVE is PvP ONLY and not a Sandbox.

Please, go play WoW.

No one said anything about getting podded in clones with learning implants. Rather that many avoid risks they would otherwise take to keep training at higher speeds. If you are the type of player who can avoid ever getting their pod caught, great. Implant prices and trade volumes on lesser implants would suggest that not everyone is quite so capable.

And I have no idea where your comment about people thinking this is a PvP only sandbox comes from in this context.
Kobal81
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#66 - 2012-05-05 00:00:25 UTC
Keep smoking that crack, Never gonna happen now go back under that rock and never speak again.

"Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit"
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-05-05 00:00:31 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
removing learning implants.... wait what? what's the use of jump clones then?

Changing sets of hardwires?
Travel?
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-05-05 00:04:35 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
removing learning implants.... wait what? what's the use of jump clones then?

Changing sets of hardwires?
Travel?

yeah that too, but still...

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2012-05-05 00:07:19 UTC
I think removing attribute (learning) implants is a terrible idea, unless CCP changes the core design and mechanics around character progression from the current time-table progression into progression tied to a time investment (ie. kill ten goblins, gain a level) model, which in itself is a awful design.

Instead I think CCP should start looking at redesigning, or remove entirely, the necessary standing requirements to be able to have jump clones and let new players start with the skill with a small tutorial of what they do and how they work. Another thing that CCP could, and should, take a look at is the training multipliers for a lot of skills because some of them seem more like common sense than a "specialization".

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Endeavour Starfleet
#70 - 2012-05-05 00:11:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Endeavour Starfleet
Leaning implants and clone cost per loss need to go. Getting your updated clone should be an expensive contract not a trip to the grocery store. For the TINY amount of isk they sink they cost the game a ton of potential PVP. Not to mention I have seen more than a few leave EVE when an accident of forgetting to reclone lead to a month + worth of training wiped out.

Remove learning implants and replace them with a universal +3 to all attributes. This is by far the most common setup anyway.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-05-05 00:15:47 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Instead I think CCP should start looking at redesigning, or remove entirely, the necessary standing requirements to be able to have jump clones and let new players start with the skill with a small tutorial of what they do and how they work.

The only issue this doesn't resolve is the one the op is most referencing, avoiding risk as a result of not wanting diminished training capacity.

To put is simply, learning implants in another clone don't help my training speed, so if I am so concerned about skill training I'm going to try to minimize my time in lesser clones and participate less in activities which would provide strong benefits to being in the lesser clone.
Loike
Pyramid Celestial
#72 - 2012-05-05 00:20:41 UTC
all missing the point, sure sp is nice but tbh there are faster ways to get it then training, grow a set, make some isk buy a toon that is already skilled and stop whining...
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#73 - 2012-05-05 00:23:10 UTC
Removing them completely takes away from what Eve really is. Its suppose to reward those who take greater risks, the use of learning implants puts a large risk due to the cost and possible loss, yet is rewarded with faster skill training time. No one is forcing people to use learning implants or the most expensive, the old phrase only fly what you can afford to lose applies to implants as well.

Changing JC ability is something else that's an issue, but not in regards to implants. However its not hard to get a JC nor does it require grinding. You just have to know what to do and where to go. Making JCs standard or easier to get only opens Pandora's box to dumbing down Eve more so then it already has.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-05-05 00:23:43 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Instead I think CCP should start looking at redesigning, or remove entirely, the necessary standing requirements to be able to have jump clones and let new players start with the skill with a small tutorial of what they do and how they work.

The only issue this doesn't resolve is the one the op is most referencing, avoiding risk as a result of not wanting diminished training capacity.

To put is simply, learning implants in another clone don't help my training speed, so if I am so concerned about skill training I'm going to try to minimize my time in lesser clones and participate less in activities which would provide strong benefits to being in the lesser clone.



thing is, if it's not learning implants, it's my hardwirings.
if it's not my hardwirings, it's my clone price
if it's not my clone price, it's my ship
if it's not my ship, it's my time.


in the end if we remove everything that makes EVE (and yes, loss is something that also drives EVE, or we wouldn't have alliances and their petty politics and pirates and whatever), EVE will stop being EVE and just become WoW in space.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#75 - 2012-05-05 00:23:45 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


You Morons just want to hop in a Capital on Day One and BLAP around.

FU...and I mean that sincerely.

If you don't have the patience for what EVE delivers....GTFO of my Sandbox.

If this is the new mindset of the newer players, it's time for us old timers to cash in and leave methinks.



You're an idiot. I have to say though, that I respect the amount of effort it must take to miss the point of the thread by such a huge margin.

Methinks if you were to "cash in and leave" ... nobody would care.

FU ... and I mean that sincerely.

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Ryshar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2012-05-05 00:23:45 UTC
I would like to reiterate that I'm talking about a new player's perspective. EVE isn't all that easy to understand right up front (I still don't understand all of it and I've been playing for a while), but even a newbie can see that learning implants are better the sooner your character gets them. The sooner you get to frigates, the sooner you can get to cruisers, the sooner you get to battlecruiser, etc.

New pilots have a tendency to want to try a lot of things, so their skill trees are all over the place and I remember being incredibly excited about the implants because they'd let me find my niche faster. But, they also made me really, REALLY want to not get podded. I could afford to lose ships, but not my implants, so I rarely went looking for PvP, even though I really wanted to try it. Based on some of the responses in this thread, I don't believe I was alone in that.

Jump clones are the route that I took, but if it weren't for some random guy telling me about Estel Arador, I never would have ground the standings to get one. But even when I got one, I'd be more likely to look at my skill queue and say, "Well, I've got a little under a day before this is finished and then I train the thing I really want..." and then opt to not jump. The fact that those implants were in my head was a serious motivation to not do what I wanted to do, and IMO newbies should have the least to lose. Otherwise, they're a lot less likely to stick around.


In short, I'm not against implants at all, just these SPECIFIC implants. They help newbies the most, but they also train them to be more risk-averse than they'd be without them. They help older pilots too, but would they really care that much if everyone just had higher base stats?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2012-05-05 00:24:17 UTC
Loike wrote:
all missing the point, sure sp is nice but tbh there are faster ways to get it then training, grow a set, make some isk buy a toon that is already skilled and stop whining...

Slightly off topic but shouldn't it be considered problematic when the solution an issue boils down to removing character progression and just buying your way to whatever you want?
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#78 - 2012-05-05 00:27:41 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Instead I think CCP should start looking at redesigning, or remove entirely, the necessary standing requirements to be able to have jump clones and let new players start with the skill with a small tutorial of what they do and how they work.

The only issue this doesn't resolve is the one the op is most referencing, avoiding risk as a result of not wanting diminished training capacity.

To put is simply, learning implants in another clone don't help my training speed, so if I am so concerned about skill training I'm going to try to minimize my time in lesser clones and participate less in activities which would provide strong benefits to being in the lesser clone.


I could argue the same mentality exists with those that doesn't risk being a legitimate target and therefor hides in NPC corps to avoid wardecs. No difference there either really.

Considering all of us have a finite amount of time in real-life, I prefer to make the skill training of my characters to be as optimal as possible until I can participate. I don't know about you but those are my thoughts on the matter.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-05-05 00:35:40 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Instead I think CCP should start looking at redesigning, or remove entirely, the necessary standing requirements to be able to have jump clones and let new players start with the skill with a small tutorial of what they do and how they work.

The only issue this doesn't resolve is the one the op is most referencing, avoiding risk as a result of not wanting diminished training capacity.

To put is simply, learning implants in another clone don't help my training speed, so if I am so concerned about skill training I'm going to try to minimize my time in lesser clones and participate less in activities which would provide strong benefits to being in the lesser clone.



thing is, if it's not learning implants, it's my hardwirings.
if it's not my hardwirings, it's my clone price
if it's not my clone price, it's my ship
if it's not my ship, it's my time.


in the end if we remove everything that makes EVE (and yes, loss is something that also drives EVE, or we wouldn't have alliances and their petty politics and pirates and whatever), EVE will stop being EVE and just become WoW in space.

I would agree with you totally, and to an extent still do, if it weren't for 2 issues:

1: Everything else but clone grades and learning implants have a direct affect on performance and therefore have an explicit reason to be used in combat. IE: Slaves are expensive for a full set, but they increase your combat survivability.

2: The affect of learning implants accumulate over time while other implants have their affect in full whenever they are in use. IE: I spend 24 hours in +3's instead of +5's and I've "lost" 4320 potential SP. This occurs for every 24 hours I'm not in the learning clone. Using slaves again, will yield me the same boost as they did prior regardless of the time I spend without them from death or clone choice. So I have no compelling reason to remain in the slave clone at all times unless there is an explicit reason to do otherwise. I only go to that clone when it is specifically beneficial.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-05-05 00:35:55 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
removing learning implants.... wait what? what's the use of jump clones then?



It'd still get me from highsec to my base in nullsec in doublequick time.