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Crime & Punishment

 
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Hulkageddon made me quit

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Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#221 - 2012-05-04 12:55:24 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:


fast check of killboard, this exhumer was tanked, stupidly expensive but tanked and died to a few catalysts, which I find idiotic.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16249620

I would imagine if I spent more than 2 minutes checking I would find many other tanked exhumers dusted. They simply are too weak, but meh, nothing more I can say on the topic that hasnt been said.


Its half baked tank. No grid implant, no mapc, no 2x shield extender rigs, cargo expanders killing the hull hps which part wastes the dcu effect, and its a mack not a hulk which does not help. Yes you can ice mine with a hulk if you want tankier.

in any case, 3x catalysts = 1500 - 2100 dps. 2100 dps = dead hulk regardless of fit.

The hulk strategy that works for this is to not mine ice, sit in a low pop system, monitor d-scan when local spikes and GTFO if catalyst gang shows on d-scan, and consider keeping some movement towards a safespot too to reduce time to warp if you are really paranoid. Also having a safe spot reduces decision making ie you just go warp instead of trying to choose where to warp.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#222 - 2012-05-04 13:08:18 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:


Well I have never been ganked in high sec, I post because I think what happens to miners is unacceptable. But even knowing who the gankers are, there is not much you can do about it with current mechanics. You can't kill them as they are about to gank, if you fire first you get dusted by concord, if you hunt them after their aggression timer is gone, you get dusted by concord. They hide behind mechanics to grief, not to pvp.



They're called "Kill Rights" ... which you get for ~30 days from the time you were ganked.

PROVIDED THAT you did not fire upon the ganker in the initial encounter.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#223 - 2012-05-04 13:08:34 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I didn't say I want to gank one of your characters. I just said that you should go and kill the people you perceive are doing wrong, especially since they're cowards, and you're not. Otherwise, claiming that they don't want to pvp because they're cowards just makes you a hypocrite.


Ok, well sorry if I inferred something you didn't imply. Well the problem with gankers is that you can't pvp them. You can't do anything to them in advance, thats why they are cowards. They attack only ships who can't do anything but die. If they became killable to your fleet for target locking a member, that would be at least something. They do not want to pvp, they want to grief. Even if they got a week cooldown aggro time in empire space for ganking to make them killable by anyone so we could hunt them, I would enjoy that immensely.

One thing I'd like to state for the record is that most gankers don't use alts to post on the forums. On top of that, many will flat-out tell you who their primary characters are. Using this knowledge, you (not specifically you, but the people who feel aggrieved by the gankers in general) should be able to strike back at your attackers. The problem is that the grand majority won't take the initiative to do so, even though going after mains should be much more harmful to the gankers than going after their dedicated gank alts.


The key fundamental issue is the version of EVE that the ganker and miner play. You gank someone's hulk and unless they're a mining alt for a PVP player, its taken as a horrible and personal loss where the person feels victimized. If you gank a ganker or even somehow manage to magically shut down their operations in the best case scenario you gain their respect because they view ship loss as a fundamental part of the game.

EVE is a game where losses actually have meaning and its that PVP aspect which forms the core narrative of the sandbox. To complain about losing ships in EVE for any reason other than lag/glitches is like hopping into a sandbox and complaining about sand.

With that being said, I really would love to see more in-game options for people who might not be able to directly fight back to defend themselves in ways that adds more risk to the attacker. Transferrable killrights would be awesome, and i'm pretty sad that we still don't have these. I think that if we want to hold true to the sandbox that is EVE we need to be balancing risk for all parties rather than eliminating the risky situation altogether. How much more exciting would Hulkageddon be if parties on the Hulkageddon side had a similar level of danger. I think anyone who participated in BurnJita/SaveJita this past weekend will agree that the event was much more fun and interesting due to the inclusion of multiple parties on opposing sides.

The moar you cry the less you pee
Plekto
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#224 - 2012-05-04 16:24:47 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
[

in any case, 3x catalysts = 1500 - 2100 dps. 2100 dps = dead hulk regardless of fit.



Correct. But at least fit a Damage Control II and reinforced bulkheads, and some EWar on it. If you can keep even one of those catalysts jammed and unable to damage you, you'll likely survive. The pirates (let's call them what they really are) tend to want to limit their losses, since every ship is guaranteed to die. So they don't generally send more than 3 or 4 destroyers.

Or you can just fly a bog-standard Covetor with a mining upgrade. The difference in yield is tiny compared to a typical no upgrade Hulk. 30 mil - and not worth really killing most of the time, since you get insurance, and they lose their ships, making it a wash for them (not taking into account sec status hits and all of that on their end)
Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#225 - 2012-05-04 17:16:11 UTC
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Dirk Decibel wrote:
Don't forget to mention you quit because of the poor balance between cost of Hulks and cost of ganking ships when CCP inquires when you quit.

If enough ppl do it CCP will rebalance and THEN you'll have some tears on the forums. Cool


And you wonder why we gank you, eh? It's because you cry like little whiny babies to CCP when your precious little ship gets popped. I know people like you are not all too familiar with specialized T2 ships, but did you also know that Black Ops BS's that cost billions have paper thin tanks, too? I mean, really friggen thin. But, they have a very specialized role, just like a Hulk does. You sacrifice something for that specialization.

Mining barges are not built for tanking. They are built for friggen MINING you idiot. That's what they are good at. If you want something that can tank, convert your stupid BS into a mining ship. You'll look like a fool, but you won't be sui-ganked quite as easily.

If you want to protect your Hulk there are some very easy things to do with a little bit of support, half of a brain, and understanding of game mechanics. Perhaps mining is the best thing for you to stick to though, since you barely have enough mental capacity to not drool like a head trauma victim or soil yourself.



I submit this post as evidence that the tears will be enormous when CCP decides to rebalance. Just the mere mentioning of a possible rebalance sends this lost soul into mindless shouting. Cool

It is fitting that he chooses the black ops BS as an example, cuz that is clearly one of the classes that needs a rebalance most.

Also: a rebalance IS coming. I know this because right now I'm training a special suicide alt for catalysts and Tornado's. And CCP has a long history of nerfing stuff I just finished training for. Cool
Rezig Huruta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#226 - 2012-05-04 17:19:26 UTC
While I personally think suicide ganking is terribly stupid - it is in the game. If it is in the game, people will do it.

But, to say there's nothing you can do about it is juvenile. The crazy, stupid, irritating nonsense that people CAN do in this game is what makes this game AWESOME.

Put aside the frustration of losing something you probably shouldn't have fielded and think about how you can protect yourself. The solution is there, this thread has many solutions in it.

Ignore the idiots that say "yer teers ur tastey", they are nothing more than slightly sociopathic madmen who, aside from that stupid 'tears' meme, help make this game what it is.

This game is OPEN.

This game is TOUGH.

This game is REWARDING.
ItchyJuffoWup
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#227 - 2012-05-04 17:26:56 UTC
See this is where you went wrong. I have avoided losing my 300mil isk hulk every year for hulkageddon by following simple rules.

1. Always stay aligned to your station. Align then cut your engines. it saves precious time.
2. Always watch local! If you see a flux of people entering the system. Be ready to dock up.
3. Have a scout to check the belts or fly around to the gates checking what kind of ships are entering.
4. NEVER AFK MINE!

and if you really want to profit

1. have a hauler/salvager ready in station.
2. hope someone elses hulk gets popped
3. take hauler/salvager out and retrieve T2 items from popped hulk/gank ship
4. profit from someone elses tears and be happy!

"Insert witty quote from some old dead poet here"
Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#228 - 2012-05-04 18:01:27 UTC
ItchyJuffoWup wrote:
See this is where you went wrong. I have avoided losing my 300mil isk hulk every year for hulkageddon by following simple rules.

1. Always stay aligned to your station. Align then cut your engines. it saves precious time.

As far as I know, and if they haven't changed it, this makes no difference. From a stand still, it will take the same ammount of time to warp to your station no matter where your nose is pointed.
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#229 - 2012-05-04 18:28:31 UTC
Dirk Decibel wrote:
ItchyJuffoWup wrote:
See this is where you went wrong. I have avoided losing my 300mil isk hulk every year for hulkageddon by following simple rules.

1. Always stay aligned to your station. Align then cut your engines. it saves precious time.

As far as I know, and if they haven't changed it, this makes no difference. From a stand still, it will take the same ammount of time to warp to your station no matter where your nose is pointed.


Orientation is irrelevant to aling time, it takes exactly the same amount of time no matter where you are pointed.

Instead, make two bookmarks either side of the belt, and align to one or the other. This basically means you never get ganked if you're at the keyboard.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#230 - 2012-05-04 18:29:01 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:
If it is just pixels then why do the gankbears shed so many tears at the thought of hulks getting a decent tank. Waaahhh, I don't want to pvp, I am too much a coward for that, I want to gank mining ships exploiting the fact that they cannot defend themselves and their fleetmates cannot shoot first, Waaahhhh. Cowards the lot of you.

Well then, why don't you take up pvp yourself and show us who's boss?


I don't mine so if you want to try to gank one of my characters, bring lots of friends. I have done alot of pvp in the past with my oldest character dating to June, 2003, but now I prefer exploration, wormholes, incursions and lvl 4 and 5s. But I am not afraid of bloated bigmouths like you. I just think people who target mining vessels are bottom feeders who lack courage.


Alt posting about his super elite main that he is too scared to name.

Completely unique post on Eve-O.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#231 - 2012-05-04 18:30:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Jacob Staffuer wrote:
Remember kids, tanking your ships makes you safe because Hulkageddon is limited to groups of 2 Catalysts.

Total Damage Taken: 19,722
Involved parties: 9

Right?

Total Damage Taken: 55,143

If you have a lot of HP, you're totally safe and won't be ganked.

Total Damage Taken: 62,199

Nobody is going after high-HP targets because it's simply not worth the trouble.

Total Damage Taken: 59,782

So remember kids, fit those expensive T2 tank modules. You won't become a juicy killmail. I promise. Someone in GoonSwarm said so.

Lol


Those are untanked Orcas you massive eejit.

Mine has 6 times the EHP. Also, not all of those only one of those is even a suicide gank.

Are you this clueless or are you trolling? Holy jesus.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Darth Snuggles
Doomheim
#232 - 2012-05-04 20:36:29 UTC
Jeremy Firewind wrote:
Well this was my last reply here, fly safe.


Then this:

Jeremy Firewind wrote:
Katja Faith wrote:
Hulka-what? So basically, you're a wuss and quit?

Gotcha.


No I just don't see how 3 moronic griefers with no risk will make me mine for wweeks on end to get another Hulk.

That is the point. And yes, maybe I am a wuss.


...and have no convictions. This ISN'T my last reply here.
A Lunchbox
Elysian Technologies Enclave
Fraternity.
#233 - 2012-05-04 20:39:07 UTC
Wow, 12 pages? Jeebus.

Okay, here's the deal, since the conversation seems to be flying off in 23829572 directions as usual, and not even the OP seems to know what exactly happened :

1) We are not recycle-an-alts
2) The nearby lowsecs were dead for a while so we decided to gank the guy for something to do, we don't even participate in hulkageddon
3) I am still laughing about this thread way more than the actual kill

GOOD DAY SIR/MADAMS
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#234 - 2012-05-04 20:41:40 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Jacob Staffuer wrote:
Remember kids, tanking your ships makes you safe because Hulkageddon is limited to groups of 2 Catalysts.

Total Damage Taken: 19,722
Involved parties: 9

Right?

Total Damage Taken: 55,143

If you have a lot of HP, you're totally safe and won't be ganked.

Total Damage Taken: 62,199

Nobody is going after high-HP targets because it's simply not worth the trouble.

Total Damage Taken: 59,782

So remember kids, fit those expensive T2 tank modules. You won't become a juicy killmail. I promise. Someone in GoonSwarm said so.

Lol


Those are untanked Orcas you massive eejit.

Mine has 6 times the EHP. Also, not all of those only one of those is even a suicide gank.

Are you this clueless or are you trolling? Holy jesus.

to put this in perspective that guy got 0wnzoned out of another thread when he posted a hulk that took "40,000 damage"...36k of which was from a frigate rat

he doesn't really "get" this game

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#235 - 2012-05-04 20:42:24 UTC
this supposed 40,000 hp hulk had 4x small shield extenders, cargohold expanders, and t2 cargo rigs

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Skogen Gump
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#236 - 2012-05-04 21:37:08 UTC
Red Rydah wrote:


The sandbox concept of EVE Online someimes means you come across those who have a playstyle that will interfere with yours.



EVE in a nutshell. I'm sorry for your loss but *this^* is why I love this game.
Kuan Yida
Huang Yinglong
Electus Matari
#237 - 2012-05-04 21:37:12 UTC
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Also, just because it is worth 100x the isk doesn't mean it has 100x the survivability. If you want a ship with 100x the combat survivability, get a tier 3 battleship - you know, a ship designed for combat - rather than complaining that a mining ship has a crappy tank. Thats like complaining a stealth bomber has a small drone bay; it is irrelevant and shows how great your lack of understanding of the game is.

Also, if you got caught and ganked, you were afk or not paying attention to local/dscan, so it is your fault you lost your hulk. Hulkageddon is Darwinism in action, it removes the terrible members of the playerbase, leaving the game overall a better place afterwards.


This quote makes me find this killmail even funnier now.

http://minmatar.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13258976

This dude is in the same corp as Arkon. I was feeling guilty, thanks for absolving me of it!

The dragon knight treasures the state, friendship, duty, promises, kindness, vengeance, honor, and righteousness more than his own life._ _- The Way of the Dragon Warrior Random Posts from Auga

Harrigan VonStudly
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#238 - 2012-05-04 21:37:51 UTC
If your 300 million isk hull is all you had to your name then you're doing Eve wrong. Good bye
Skogen Gump
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#239 - 2012-05-04 21:40:41 UTC
Anyone else wonder if there would be less or *more* whining on the forums if ships made the same WET splash sound that you get when you pop a pod ?

It could even change tone depending on the size of the ship - I would fund my own hulkageddon for that :)
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#240 - 2012-05-04 21:41:19 UTC
Jeremy Firewind wrote:
this was my last reply here, fly safe.


Liar.