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Complexity--EVE vs. Darkfall
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Krellius Kromwell
Elysian.
#1 - 2012-05-04 18:56:55 UTC
So, out of boredom and needed a break from EVE, I started playing Darkfall about 3 weeks ago. I had a heated debate with the clan's leader last night about the complexity of EVE vs. Darkfall. From my 3 weeks of experience with Darkfall, I came to the conclusion that EVE is much much more complex than Darkfall, he naturally disagrees as he's never even touched EVE. The thing is, I've pretty much played every "hardcore" pvp games since Meridian 59 and some MUDs and I'm also a min-maxer to the point that I religiously research "ultimate" builds, exploits etc....therefore I can say that I have at least researched and read about the "complexities" that Darkfall has to offfer including the bunnyhop, figure 8, sprint dodge, sieges, VCPs, ships, etc....

Now here's what irks me the most; he insists that I "don't" know Darkfall and I haven't "playeD" it. He insists that there's more to Darkfall, that's it's more complex and that I'm ignorant for making a conclusion (which is based on my opinion) about the 2 games when I know nothing of Darkfall. Valid point, however through his rosy fanboism shades, he failed to see how hypocritical it is to say that my conclusion is invalid because he has never seen EVE, while I have done my research and played Darkfall and EVE (sporadically since 2004).

So my question to those who have much experience with both games--as in having "black belts", which is more "complex" (and I use that term loosely, since it is subjective) based on your experience? And maybe explain your conclusion a bit.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-05-04 20:47:26 UTC
Just explain to him how in eve it takes 7 years to learn all of the skills. You can fly up to a planet and build a colony on it, and in real time shot it, effecting a real time battle over that planets resources being fought in an FPS battle with weapons and tanks made by the players in space.

That should put him in his place

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2012-05-04 21:00:37 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Just explain to him how in eve it takes 7 years to learn all of the skills. You can fly up to a planet and build a colony on it, and in real time shot it, effecting a real time battle over that planets resources being fought in an FPS battle with weapons and tanks made by the players in space.

That should put him in his place


What? To train all the skills to 5 would take you 20 years, or so was the estimate.

As for the Darkfall fanboy, he is just mad that he didn't pick EVE, that his game is terrible and Eurogamer called it '****'.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/darkfall-online-review
followup: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/editors-blog-darkfall-aftermath-blog-entry

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
stoicfaux
#4 - 2012-05-04 21:03:43 UTC
Show him EFT/pyFA, EveMon and the various industry and market tools/spreadsheet and tell him that those are the "talent/enchantment/perk/whatever" calculators. For bonus points, show him Eve University, http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports, and the criminal flagging system. Then you can start on PvP tactics. Plus equations, especially the tracking and stacking equations.


p.s. Not to imply that complexity is always a good thing.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-05-04 21:15:18 UTC
OH! show him the chart for tech 3 production

That'll make it clear

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Krellius Kromwell
Elysian.
#6 - 2012-05-04 21:52:41 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Just explain to him how in eve it takes 7 years to learn all of the skills. You can fly up to a planet and build a colony on it, and in real time shot it, effecting a real time battle over that planets resources being fought in an FPS battle with weapons and tanks made by the players in space.

That should put him in his place


What? To train all the skills to 5 would take you 20 years, or so was the estimate.

As for the Darkfall fanboy, he is just mad that he didn't pick EVE, that his game is terrible and Eurogamer called it '****'.


To be fair to DF, having lots of skills and them being time intensive to train doesn't mean that it's more complex. DF also have tons of skills, most of them are fairly useless however and would take a casual gamer a long long time to finish training if said gamer doesn't macro. Also, while integral and adds a whole new layer of depth to EVE, Dust 514 is still a different game, thus would be a hardsell to non-believers even if it is a valid point of contention.

Note that I never claimed that EVE is a superior game or a better game when talking to him, just a lot more complex and complexity doesn't mean that it's better either. I enjoy them both as DF is still a fresh, new experience. However, I have come to a conclusion that fanboism is a mental condition that will eat away at one's grey matter as it robs a person of any objectivity and the ability to see things for what they are. Fanbois are reasons why the genre is lacking innovative breakthroughs.
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-05-05 01:04:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jett0
EVE is so complex, it now needs two games.

Occasionally plays sober
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-05-05 01:36:26 UTC
Jett0 wrote:
EVE is so complex, it now needs two games.

I believe my colleague makes a valid point.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#9 - 2012-05-05 13:34:24 UTC
Ask him what is the Darkfall equivalent of this:

What to do in EVE? Professions chart

Game, set and match.
Krellius Kromwell
Elysian.
#10 - 2012-05-05 17:13:42 UTC
Nice! That chart is awesome! Personally, I already know EVE is much more in-depth and complex than Darkfall. It's just the overzealous fanboism that scares me....guess I'll find a new clan to play with.