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Skin tones - CCP, this is not how ethnicity works

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Author
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#21 - 2012-05-04 16:08:47 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
MotherMoon wrote:
can't have the old ones and the new ones? I'm curious as to the limitation stopping you from having both available, or is it a design choice?

just so we are clear, when I talk about skintypes and skin tones, this is what I mean:
skintype = new skin colors
skin tone = old skin colors

We feel the current color skin tone range is too narrow and having to pick one of 6 skin tones that are pretty much the doesn't make that much sense. We want to allow characters of all bloodlines to use the new skintypes we created, and that range is pretty broad and the colors pretty evenly spread.
So if we wanted to have the old color also available, the options would be 20 for each bloodline, which is too much, and the color palette would just look weird with maybe 10 very white options(for Amarr), and then the rest.
Also, we want to move to use the new skintypes (behind the scenes they are totally different from the skin tones), but realize some people might not be happy to change colors so we are allowing people to keep their old skin tone until they actually apply a new skintype and save the character.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Mirajane Cromwell
#22 - 2012-05-04 16:18:37 UTC
One could think that at so distant future, the mankind has found technology to change skin pigments to any color we wish (at will too)... so when can we have characters in all those beautiful rainbow colors? Blink
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#23 - 2012-05-04 16:20:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
CCP karkur wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
can't have the old ones and the new ones? I'm curious as to the limitation stopping you from having both available, or is it a design choice?

just so we are clear, when I talk about skintypes and skin tones, this is what I mean:
skintype = new skin colors
skin tone = old skin colors

We feel the current color skin tone range is too narrow and having to pick one of 6 skin tones that are pretty much the doesn't make that much sense. We want to allow characters of all bloodlines to use the new skintypes we creates, and that range is pretty broad and the colors pretty evenly spread.
So if we wanted to have the old color also available, the options would be 20 for each bloodline, which is too much, and the color palette would just look weird with maybe 10 very white options(for Amarr), and then the rest.
Also, we want to move to use the new skintypes (behind the scenes they are totally different from the skin tones), but realize some people might not be happy to change colors so we are allowing people to keep their old skin tone until they actually apply a new skintype and save the character.


So, if skintype is a different element from skin tone, then in theory we could pick a skintype and then adjust for variation by applying a skin tone - much like eyes have a basic eye choice followed by a coloring tone layer which varies with each eye - a green color on eyeball A isn't the same green as on eyeball B in other words.

Then we could slightly adjust the skin tone of the skin type.

/me nudges.

Cool

Where I am.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-05-04 16:20:25 UTC
CCP, can you please stop dodging the question and tell us what it will take to get all clothing and hairstyle choices unlocked for all characters as well? Pretty much everyone has been asking for this from day one of Incursion.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2012-05-04 16:40:39 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
CCP, can you please stop dodging the question and tell us what it will take to get all clothing and hairstyle choices unlocked for all characters as well? Pretty much everyone has been asking for this from day one of Incursion.
If you feel I am dodging the question, that is only because I don't know and it's nothing I have control over, it's up to the art direction.
I'll ask some people after the weekend.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-05-04 18:20:38 UTC
Sorry for getting short with you guys. That was unacceptable behaviour on my part and I apologise.

It's just that myself and many other Incarna enthusiasts have been after this basically since Incursion in early 2011 and we've always either been straight out not answered or told "I'll ask the art team", and never given a response. Personally, I think getting access to all the clothes and hairstyles would be a significant boost to avatars without having to add any new art assets, and it would certainly make for more satisfying avatar customisation.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#27 - 2012-05-04 19:42:00 UTC
I remember a CCP dev saying "Why would a Caldari wear an Amarr robe? It doesn't make sense" the first time the above argument was brought about.

But that's moot/redundant now, considering we can have pale-skinned Brutor when PF says Brutor are dark-skinned. The argument in favour of homogeneous skin tones is "Capsuleer have access to genemodification"...in the same sense, I'm sure nothing will stop them donning on any type of racial clothing.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-05-04 21:01:47 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
I remember a CCP dev saying "Why would a Caldari wear an Amarr robe? It doesn't make sense" the first time the above argument was brought about.


And my answer would still be "ask a Caldari member of CVA". Blink

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#29 - 2012-05-04 22:08:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyoko Sakoda
I guess my question would be: if we're going to go this far with customization (with hair too, now, and eventually racial blending), why not get rid of all of the previous bloodline archetypes completely? That would mean going to an All Points Bulletin type model, for example. That makes little sense to me, but I have to ask.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#30 - 2012-05-04 22:40:03 UTC
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:
I guess my question would be: if we're going to go this far with customization (with hair too, now, and eventually racial blending), why not get rid of all of the previous bloodline archetypes completely? That would mean going to an All Points Bulletin type model, for example. That makes little sense to me, but I have to ask.


Sums up my thoughts.

What is the point of bloodlines now?
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#31 - 2012-05-05 11:45:30 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Sorry for getting short with you guys. That was unacceptable behaviour on my part and I apologise.

It's just that myself and many other Incarna enthusiasts have been after this basically since Incursion in early 2011 and we've always either been straight out not answered or told "I'll ask the art team", and never given a response.
No problem at all, apology accepted Smile
Anyways, shortly after I replied, the creative director came back and I asked him whether we would ever consider that. He said he wanted to give all bloodline access to all clothes at some point, but probably through the LP store or something like that (I don't know if he has discussed it with the art director, who may or may not agree). So there is no timeline on it, but there is at lest interest in doing it. I didn't ask about the hairstyle, but from my point of view, we will need to lift some restrictions if we put in racial blending (whether it's give you access to the hairstyle of the other bloodline or something else),
I hope that answers some of your questions somewhat... I'm not sure there is any better answers at this point. Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#32 - 2012-05-05 14:09:47 UTC
The hairstyles thing seem oddly inconsistent with skin colour. Why not allow access to a different range of skin tones (a blend) when mixing? Sort of like at Fanfest, where a white Amarr and a dark Brutor mixed produced an olive skinned guy.
Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#33 - 2012-05-05 15:18:55 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Why not allow access to a different range of skin tones (a blend) when mixing? Sort of like at Fanfest, where a white Amarr and a dark Brutor mixed produced an olive skinned guy.



You read my mind Seri, I was just in the process of coming on to say the exact same thing but you beat me to it X

I do rather liked the way the skin tones were handled is this video with the blood line blending. The Amarr-Brutor blend looked superb both facial feature and skin tone wise.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-05-05 15:29:14 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Anyways, shortly after I replied, the creative director came back and I asked him whether we would ever consider that. He said he wanted to give all bloodline access to all clothes at some point, but probably through the LP store or something like that (I don't know if he has discussed it with the art director, who may or may not agree). So there is no timeline on it, but there is at lest interest in doing it.


That's pretty cool. In fact, I'm pretty much OK with the idea of "starting clothes" being restricted, but the ability to get more later - this is a capitalist game after all. Presumably if these were available on the LP system, I'd be able to get them through the market or contracts as well? Most of the clothing I want is from the Caldari inventory, and I have terrible standings with them.

By the way, probably a redundant question, but when we talk about the LP store, we're talking about in-game Loyalty Points and LP Stores, not NeX and Aurum, right?

CCP karkur wrote:
I didn't ask about the hairstyle, but from my point of view, we will need to lift some restrictions if we put in racial blending (whether it's give you access to the hairstyle of the other bloodline or something else),
I hope that answers some of your questions somewhat... I'm not sure there is any better answers at this point. Smile


Well, getting access to all the hairstyles would be pretty cool. But on the subject of skin tones and racial blending and all that jazz, there's a question I'd like to ask on behalf of various bloodlines, particularly the Amarrian ones - can we please have the ability to make younger-looking characters?

Take my guy for example. He's meant to be pretty young, but he has very visible nasolabial folds which make him look like he's in his mid-thirties. This is at the lowest setting on the "Aging" slider, whereas True Gallente can end up looking like they're barely old enough to get into bed with someone, let alone fly a capsuleer. However, this isn't nearly as bad as males of the three Amarrian bloodlines have it - it's basically impossible to make a young-looking Amarrian, even at the lowest "Aging" setting, and Khanid males only look younger because their darker skin hides their wrinkles a little.

It'd be pretty cool if we could have more age variance among members of the same bloodline.

Lastly, a while back I found an awesome bug (it was regretably fixed) that lets you look like you have clear glasses. Is there any possibility we could get our hands on some of those? Lol

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#35 - 2012-05-05 20:21:55 UTC
Commissar Kate wrote:
I do rather liked the way the skin tones were handled is this video with the blood line blending. The Amarr-Brutor blend looked superb both facial feature and skin tone wise.


I am a fan of this, but I am worried that the archetypes will break down before blending. I think blending is great, but basic character archetypes have been a part of EVE since 2003 and I don't see why it should (more or less) go away.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-05-05 20:29:57 UTC
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:
I am a fan of this, but I am worried that the archetypes will break down before blending. I think blending is great, but basic character archetypes have been a part of EVE since 2003 and I don't see why it should (more or less) go away.


Totally agree. The new skin tone system is just freaky.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#37 - 2012-05-05 20:33:38 UTC
It's not really about "freaky," it's just about the art direction of the game. I've been playing since 2004 and feel pretty strongly about it.
Logan LaMort
Screaming Hayabusa
#38 - 2012-05-06 00:49:57 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Sorry for getting short with you guys. That was unacceptable behaviour on my part and I apologise.

It's just that myself and many other Incarna enthusiasts have been after this basically since Incursion in early 2011 and we've always either been straight out not answered or told "I'll ask the art team", and never given a response.
No problem at all, apology accepted Smile
Anyways, shortly after I replied, the creative director came back and I asked him whether we would ever consider that. He said he wanted to give all bloodline access to all clothes at some point, but probably through the LP store or something like that (I don't know if he has discussed it with the art director, who may or may not agree). So there is no timeline on it, but there is at lest interest in doing it. I didn't ask about the hairstyle, but from my point of view, we will need to lift some restrictions if we put in racial blending (whether it's give you access to the hairstyle of the other bloodline or something else),
I hope that answers some of your questions somewhat... I'm not sure there is any better answers at this point. Smile


So racial blending is definitely being considered? I know it was previewed at fanfest but being able to do it doesn't necessarily equal that you will. I'm all for it and I imagined it working as simply you'd get access to the other racial clothing, tattoos and hairstyles/colours.

Faction clothing for LP is a pretty neat idea. Are you guys also still doing the clothing themes, such as cyberpunk, buisness, scientist etc?

Also whatever happened to the eye implant on sisi last year? The one which looked like this. It was really cool, looked like an electronic eyepatch for us pirate types Cool
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#39 - 2012-05-07 16:33:19 UTC
Is the replacement of the skin tones with these 14 skin types a preparation for bloodline blending?
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#40 - 2012-05-07 21:24:57 UTC
Updating Sisi... but let me guess: no olive skins, no red skins, and Asian with chocolate skins. Twisted

Will be back briefly.