Science & Industry

OK, not sure why I'm going to continue bothering but you still don't seem to understand simple economics 101 and your credibility of a knowledgeable or semi-serious industrialist is completely shot (if it ever existed). Furthermore, this entire thread is your argument - the task is for you to convince everyone else to switch their opinion of the topic. However, simply saying you are right does not make it so and you have yet to get one person to agree with you that did not in the first place.

But not to display my own hypocrisy, I will not only say your argument is flawed but I will show you in a simple way.

Here are three scenarios that show you are not understanding how the T2 market (or markets in general) works. For sake of argument, assume that it takes the same amount of time (1 week) to make 1 unit of X. Assume the profit from invention is 1mil isk and for the T2BPO holder, 5mil isk. These are simple scenarios but mirror the market pretty closely from my experience.

Scenario 1 - Item X is sold in a market with 9 inventors and 1 T2BPO holder. If the market demand is satisfied by selling 10 units per week, all industrialists have the same chance to make a profit. The T2 BPO holder makes 5mil of his sale and the other 9 make 1 mil.

Scenario 2 - Item X demand on the market in scenario 1 is now for 100 units per week. Now the industrialists cannot supply the market with the required demand, so the price increases. Additionally, this draws in more industrialists to supply the market due to the profit incentive. Because there are far more inventors than T2 BPO owners, supply from invention will determine the price point, not T2 BPOs. However, at no point would the T2 BPO owner undercut the invention set price if they are a rational actor. If they did, with high demand the incentive to buy low and sell at the higher price point exists and is exactly what happens. If the T2 BPO owner lowers the price too low, the are only reducing their profit since the movement is high.

Scenario 3 - Item X demand drops to 5 units per week. Now the market is in over supply and the price will drop. Normally this is where the price will drop below the cost to build the item and industrialists will leave the market due to a lack of profit incentive and will likely drop prices of the stock they have on hand to move to another item or market. The T2 BPO holder has a larger cushion to his price margin however, also runs into a point where he may no longer supply the market if the demand is so low.

In the above three scenarios we find the following re-occurring themes:

1. The T2 BPO owner can make more profit than an inventor under my simplified assumptions
2. The market price self-corrects based on supply and demand
3. A T2 BPO owner can find a point where they still have an expensive asset (even if they got it for free it has a substantial value) that does not earn them a profit
4. The presence of a T2 BPO owner for a market item is unknown to other industrialists and this knowledge alone does not affect the price of goods sold when rational actors are involved. See #2.

Now your argument is that the T2 BPO owner can "severely undercut" the inventor. So it sounds to me that your argument is that you can't make a profit, or that you cannot compete. The T2 BPO owner can make more of a profit. This is true but you can make a profit too and you can easily compete with them where items meet or exceed demand.

Does this give enough of a reason to remove T2 BPOs? In my opinion, no. They are not harming the market nor are they hampering invention in any way - they are another way to supply the market with items. If you have a T2 BPO for the same market item I have, my decision to make that same item does not rest on the fact you have a T2 BPO - it rests on whether I can sell the item at a profit and within a time period that fits my business plan. Your ability to undercut me has no bearing on my decision at all because if you were to do this (market pvp) I will just buy you out. Since you are limited by the amount you can produce (I have three characters that can produce items whereas you have 1), there is no way for you to compete with me. So as a rational actor, you will NOT undercut me to a level that endangers your profits, which will be larger than mine.

Leaving T2 BPOs in the game does very little overall, if anything, to the larger market or the future of T2 production through invention. In the end, the only valid argument that you have is that they can make more profit than an inventor. Under my assumptions above, that is true. Does it matter? Not if you know what game you are playing.

Just want to point out, the most profitable Industrialists are all in lowsec/nulsec where the minerals are 20-50% cheeper then highsec, in other words, Inventors stand no chance while even the worst T2 BPO is outright lucrative which is killing inventors left and right.

How many people actually invent as a main source of income in eve?
5?
10?
1?

Indeed I do think 78% of all tech 2 items are created from BPO's this sounds about right to me.

edit:
nulsec

As the impact of T2 BPO's on EVE's economy grows the game population shrinks.

84% of interceptors are produced using BPO's WTF? OK here we have a common item yet BPO's still dominate, Why is this?

SUMMARY

In conclusion, invention has taken over a large portion of the Tech II market, especially in areas where the supply from the BPOs failed to keep pace with the high demand for these much sought-after items. There are exceptions for some items like interceptors, which have relatively fast build times, and are thus mostly produced by BPO owners since they can fill the demand. , But without question, invention has had a great effect on the market as a whole.

Since the introduction of the invention system, price for many of the most sought after Tech II items have dropped down to much more affordable levels in the past two and a half years. With the barrier of entry into Tech II production effectively removed, the supply for high demand items in addition to items with long build times has increased greatly, which in turn has created market competition and made it all but impossible for cartels to monopolize certain products.

The most intriguing and unexpected revelation we had while looking through Tech II production was the relatively large amount of production done in lowsec space, beating out nullsec space by a fair margin. As outlined earlier, most lowsec Tech II production done is performed in 0.4 systems. Therefore, we can assume that this is largely attributed to its proximity to hisec space, where finished products are transported for sale on the market. There are other benefits as well, most notably the higher availability of production and invention slots in lowsec space. Between these and the generally higher availability of contracts (binding transaction agreements between parties that can include the transportation of goods) with high security space, there is decreased downtime between production jobs—a good thing, considering that time is money.

As the player base for EVE continues to grow, the demand for Tech II products will only increase, creating new opportunities for aspiring industrialists to break into the Tech II market through invention. Proportionally, we can expect BPCs to account for an increasingly larger portion of the Tech II market in the coming months and years, as the limited supply of BPOs does not have the capacity to meet the demand.

Ah cool but surely this is a prime example why Interceptor invention is in dire need of buffing?

And why? because T2 BPOs cost 100 times more than an Invention with similar effort?... I dont get it


Also, could you please link the source if this 84% information, just curious.