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Best L4 mission ship
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Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-05-03 23:32:19 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
An upgrade from an Apoc would be an Abaddon for the damage bonus, sure you lose some range, but not enough rats orbit past 50km to make the Apoc better.


I wouldn't really consider the abaddon to be an upgrade from the apocalypse. It's at best a side-grade. Frankly the abaddon is far better suited to new players than either the armageddon or the apocalypse. It has higher fitting capacity, the tank bonus is good for people who need or want to over-tank as they start on L4s, and the damage bonus helps make them get every last erg of worth out of their lasers when their capacitor skills are weak. The apocalypse's laser capacitor usage bonus would do it better, yes, but it doesn't work as well with the range bonus as the abaddon's damage/resistance bonuses work together in a "my tank is perma-run but my guns can, and will, send me under so every shot has to count" scenario.

Kalli Brixzat wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
just out of curiosity: how does a rail rokh do in gurista missions compared to a nightmare? i do have good tengu skills but i cringe at flying it with gunnery implants


Rokh is overall a pretty mediocre BS - especially compared to other turret bigs. A BlasteRRokh has solid deeps, but the tank leaves something to be desired given how close you'll be engaging. A RailRokh is a pretty good sniper, but still not as good as some.


drdxie wrote:
I tried a rail rokh way before the changes, and I was not very impressed. I can say that the 350mm rails give better applied dps than the 425 and will allow for an easier fit. I found this one of the most frustrating ships to mission with. It does make a great wh miner though Big smile


I tried my rokh out in a mission awhile ago, and I honestly found it to be quite nice. I slapped on 8 T2 425mm railguns, a 100mn Core X MWD, T2 large shield booster, a pair of T2 invulnerability fields, a sensor booster, Pith A-Type shield boost amp, 4 T2 MagStabs, and a T2 tracking enhancer and went to town in one L4 mission that has you chasing some NPC through multiple gates and fighting rats from multiple factions.

I'd MWD out to 60-70km from the rats, pound down most battleships in 10-12 volleys, and go from there. At those ranges the damage was so negligible that I was, quite frankly, over-tanked for the mission. If tank ever proved an issue I could stop using 60km optimal, 30-35km falloff AM-loaded guns, put in a range script for the sensor booster, switch to spike, and pelt stuff from far, far outside their engagement sphere.

All things considered so long as the opponents have a solid kinetic or thermal hole with little resistance to the other and you don't have to worry about getting webbed the rokh can be a solid "slow and steady" ship just so long as you open and maintain range.


Korgan Nailo wrote:
Other hints:
- Angel: go with Pulses. These fags like to hug you all the time orbiting at 5kms... seriously...
- Guristas: put an ECCM on (specifically for your ship Amarr = Radar, Minmatar = Ladar) in place of a TC, be happy with almost no jamming. Drop an Inv. for a Kinetic. Fit an Auto Targeting II for laziness.


The nightmare is not a ship I'd want to use in an Angel or Guristas mission. Hell, I'd sooner fly an 800mm AC abaddon or a raven instead, and I don't like using unbonused weapons or ravens. A nightmare might tackle Angel ships better than it does Guristas shipos, but neither is appropriate fodder for one. Their thermal and EM resistances, respectively, see to that rather handily.
Goran Konjich
Krompany
#22 - 2012-05-04 06:48:49 UTC
this works just fine => http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/60227-Dominix-III-and-IV-700-DPS-Drones-and-Guns-Minimal-Low-SP.html

I'm a diplomat. Sometimes i throw 425mm wide briefcases at enemy. Such is EVE.
Kalli Brixzat
#23 - 2012-05-04 07:33:35 UTC
Korgan Nailo wrote:
Nightmare / Machariel.

I prefer the Nightmare 7 in 7 days of the week.

I would say each ship has its strengths, and both are shield tanked, which to me again is the best way to go for Missioning.

Nightmare:
- Can fit a great tank
- Can easily use Tachyons for missions with tons of mobs at 70-80 kms
- Lasers are just a few crystals and not 80% of your cargo
- Using Tachyons it is affordable to use Faction (Imperial Navy) ammo, thus reaching 950+ DPS
- Using Pulses you can reach 1100+ DPS

Machariel:
- Can fit a great tank (although contrary to the NM, it is not able to run for too long as you'll most likely use cap boosters)
- Projectiles don't use cap, so, whenever you need your repairer chances are you'll have 80%+ of cap for it
- Easier to fit an AB and fly at 600 m/s (which is bullshit for a BS, but whatever, CCP will never fix it)
- Using ACs you melt down anything within 20kms with over 1000 DPS or 1100+ with faction / t2 ammo (which you're probably insane if you do)

Now, for crying out loud, these are NOT cheap ships, so please, for everything's sake, fly them properly.

If you do NOT have ISK to buy a Pith or Gist X-large, even the C one, don't fly it. Chances are that if you screw up just that bit on X mission you'll loose a billion ship that can't have a worth mentioning insurance on.

3 damage mods. Period. If you want to go with the 4th, fine, but 3 is a must.

Other hints:
- Angel: go with Pulses. These fags like to hug you all the time orbiting at 5kms... seriously...
- Guristas: put an ECCM on (specifically for your ship Amarr = Radar, Minmatar = Ladar) in place of a TC, be happy with almost no jamming. Drop an Inv. for a Kinetic. Fit an Auto Targeting II for laziness.
- Sansha: Two Invulnerabilities will get you killed, go with One Inv. + EM. Adjust this to whatever you're flying.
--> WARNING: Sansha's Blockade is the ONLY mission I every got in trouble with so far. Fit Tachyons / Arts, warp in at 70kms or 100km, blow them all from distance before the fuc.king TD takes place. Profit.
- If flying the Nightmare, know your optimals and use the proper crystal.
- you don't need a Caldari Inv. Field, but they help a lot. Yet, Gist X-Large repairer is priority.

Enjoy rocking missions. =)


Total overkill for any and all L4 mission(s). That said, they will certainly get the job done faster...which, I guess, is the goal.

Agreed on the Blockade one. Range is your friend. A CNR with proper skills can function the same way for WAY less. But it will definitely take longer to complete.
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#24 - 2012-05-04 21:55:17 UTC
Just sharing my personal experiences and thoughts.

When I started, about a year and a half ago, I didn't know what to train for, what to aim for. I spent a lot of training on ships and skills I simply don't use today. If I hadn't, I would probably had been happier with my "pew pewing" about 3 months early. =)

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Queefmonster
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#25 - 2012-05-05 04:26:13 UTC
I'm a bit new to Nightmare-fitting.

How close to cap stable should the fit be? I know my shield booster won't be cycling 100% of the time, but I'm wondering if I'd get by with a large rather than an XL.

Also, what do you guys normally put in the utility high slots? From what I understand, NOS doesn't affect mission rats, so I'm really at a loss there.
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-05-05 08:12:14 UTC
supercarrier, carrier, or friendship are the three best ships you can run lvl 4s with. but seriously, if you don't have good BS skills, you can still make money (with less risk) running lvl 3s, as lvl 4 income has been nerfed and isn't worth the risk if your support skills aren't excellent.
drdxie
#27 - 2012-05-05 09:41:51 UTC
Queefmonster wrote:
I'm a bit new to Nightmare-fitting.

How close to cap stable should the fit be? I know my shield booster won't be cycling 100% of the time, but I'm wondering if I'd get by with a large rather than an XL.

Also, what do you guys normally put in the utility high slots? From what I understand, NOS doesn't affect mission rats, so I'm really at a loss there.


NM will never be close to cap stable. You would give up much DPS to make it stable. I use an x-l SB and a shield boost amp. with just my tank mods and my beams firing I get 5 mins of cap. I use cap boosters if I need them and pulse my shields. On the longer missions my cap will hover round 10 % before I give it a few boosts. My shield generally hangs around 50%, when it get less I will give it a boost for a cycle or 2. A NOS does work on the rats. I have a tractor and auto targeter in my utility high. Tractor to grab mission cans and the autotargeter gets you 2 more locked targets. I split my beams and use them individually, 1 beam insta pops a frig if it is further than 20km. Cruisers will mostly pop with 2 beams. I try and hit the frigs and cruisers first, before they get under my guns. Barely use my drones.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#28 - 2012-05-05 16:15:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Korgan Nailo
drdxie wrote:
Queefmonster wrote:
I'm a bit new to Nightmare-fitting.

How close to cap stable should the fit be? I know my shield booster won't be cycling 100% of the time, but I'm wondering if I'd get by with a large rather than an XL.

Also, what do you guys normally put in the utility high slots? From what I understand, NOS doesn't affect mission rats, so I'm really at a loss there.


NM will never be close to cap stable. You would give up much DPS to make it stable. I use an x-l SB and a shield boost amp. with just my tank mods and my beams firing I get 5 mins of cap. I use cap boosters if I need them and pulse my shields. On the longer missions my cap will hover round 10 % before I give it a few boosts. My shield generally hangs around 50%, when it get less I will give it a boost for a cycle or 2. A NOS does work on the rats. I have a tractor and auto targeter in my utility high. Tractor to grab mission cans and the autotargeter gets you 2 more locked targets. I split my beams and use them individually, 1 beam insta pops a frig if it is further than 20km. Cruisers will mostly pop with 2 beams. I try and hit the frigs and cruisers first, before they get under my guns. Barely use my drones.

This.

Energy Vampires on high slots are a waste IMO. More often than not, you won't have anything to drain from.

My fit for Tachyons is has 2 Cap Rechargers and 1 Capacitor Flux Coil. That and the 3 CCC are enough. I also have all the implants +3 for cap / energy weapon cap in slots 6 through 10. That gives me stable at 65.8% without the Gist running shooting with Gleam and 3:50 cap time with SB running.

Tanking is not fantastic but then again, at 900+ DPS at anything within 50kms usually nothing comes closer than 30kms. I don't even have to cycle the booster for several minutes on missions.

Now... depending on the mission, you might want to consider going with a Pulse fit. WHAT?!?!?!?!?!? Yes, a Pulse fit.

A few numbers about that (all with 3 HS, as I don't use 4):
- anything within 25kms will be subject to the wrath of your Pulses at 950+ DPS with IN Multifrequency. Conflag is crap if you're not shooting at BS as you'll loose tracking, but if you are, then go for it for 1050+ DPS.
- further than that and you go with Scorch, which will give you 750+ DPS to anything within 65kms with the same tracking as if you where using Gleam, 1 TE and 2 TCs with TS and Tachyons. In most missions, 65kms is enough to cook anything quickly.
- you can run your booster many more times or have a Shield Boost Amplifier that will in turn give you a lot more shield per cycle
- you can even with all that fit an AB and have the same 4 minutes cap time with everything (but the AB) running
- worst case it is stable at 72% without the SB or AB, this is great so you have a lot of cap in "stock" for "omfg" moments.

When I started flying the Nightmare I always heard these "legends" about Pulses being horrible for it and so on and so forth. Turns out that both fits work great, with the Tachyons having the awesomes of delivering 600+ DPS at 85kms with IN Standard and the pulses can have an AB or even deadspace MWD (which gives no cap penalty) for close and burn strategies. Not having an AB is a pain in the butt sometimes, as in some missions you have gates at 50kms and you clear everything in 2 mins and have to wait 5 mins to get to the gate. In these, Pulse fit FTW.

Again, Pulse fit ONLY works with T2 and Scorch. If you can't fit those, don't even think about it, and meta 4 Tachyons are your friends. (I started like that). Unfortunatelly, Gleam after the changes is amazing for Tachyons, and you might find yourself cursing the cruisers at 15kms without it.

TLDR: Aim for 4 minutes of cap with everything that matters (no salvagers, tractors) running. This is considering CCC. If you go with SMC that is another math that I will not dwell into now.

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Katy Ling
Crimnson Concept Flame
#29 - 2012-05-05 19:39:23 UTC
Lijah Sai wrote:
I'm running L4's from Dresi (security) what would you guys recommend the best ship to be to solo them. My skills are specialised the be amarr (currently flying an apoc.) but I could cross train if need be, thanks in advance, love you guys, such a great community helping noobs like me here :)


if you fly amarr ships, try to use amarr agents, because they will give you most missions against npc's with weakness against you're amarr ships/guns (like sanshas and blood raiders - they shoot em/thermal and are week to em/thermal - you shoot em/thermal = win)

Apoc is good for range, but not so much on dps, Abaddon has better tank/DPS, but a lowsy cap recharge

same principle tends to aply to other factions.

when you're skills increase, you can try more advanced ships.
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