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Tilting at windmills

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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#261 - 2012-05-04 02:19:25 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
oh look another npc forum alt demagogue

let me ask you OP, why isn't it in CCP's best interest to cater to the needs of those who generate the vast majority of publicity and word of mouth for their game, while creating the majority of immersive content as well. Is your combo of veldspar mining and posting dumbass rants with your alt really enriching the experience for others?


I'm sure that "ordered Goons to drive another player to suicide" as a headline on Gaming Sites will attract many new players.
And yet at the end of the day, CCP's marketing praises them openly. When's the last time CCP gave a shout out to Pator Tech School's thrilling contributions?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#262 - 2012-05-04 02:20:41 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
I'm not sure your strategy of repeating over and over again that someone who spends 90% of his time in High Sec is "not High Sec" is really that convincing.
Good thing that I'm not doing that then.

Now, if you want to talk about a bad strategy, relying on strawman arguments is pretty high on that list.
Quote:
You know this how?
From the simple fact that the numbers are up.
Vince Snetterton
#263 - 2012-05-04 02:26:36 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
oh look another npc forum alt demagogue

let me ask you OP, why isn't it in CCP's best interest to cater to the needs of those who generate the vast majority of publicity and word of mouth for their game, while creating the majority of immersive content as well. Is your combo of veldspar mining and posting dumbass rants with your alt really enriching the experience for others?


I'm sure that "ordered Goons to drive another player to suicide" as a headline on Gaming Sites will attract many new players.
And yet at the end of the day, CCP's marketing praises them openly. When's the last time CCP gave a shout out to Pator Tech School's thrilling contributions?



Let's see how much CCP Marketing is singing the praises of all the null sec zealots in about 6 or 7 months.
Let's see how excited they are about all this player driven content when the null sec zealots have shut down 3 or 4 trade hubs simultaneously, without warning this time, and crushed a lot of high sec industrial players enough they quit the game.

Frankly, the concept of financially crushing high sec is a hugely daunting task, and I would impressed at the logistics of making it happen. What I cannot stand is the maliciousness and reason for doing it: to drive players out of high sec or out of the game.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#264 - 2012-05-04 02:29:25 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
oh look another npc forum alt demagogue

let me ask you OP, why isn't it in CCP's best interest to cater to the needs of those who generate the vast majority of publicity and word of mouth for their game, while creating the majority of immersive content as well. Is your combo of veldspar mining and posting dumbass rants with your alt really enriching the experience for others?


I'm sure that "ordered Goons to drive another player to suicide" as a headline on Gaming Sites will attract many new players.


It certainly hasn't driven subscriber numbers down any.


You know this how?

Do you know where the numbers would be without his idiocy?

Maybe all the technical improvements are barely countering your behavior.

It seems that the real world is more complex than screamed non-thoughts.


There is no screaming here. I don't have the energy for it. I'm trying to find a graph to prove it, but it's proving incredibly difficult to find an up to date subscriber graph. So I will concede that the number may have dipped slightly until I can find actual proof.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#265 - 2012-05-04 02:30:11 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Let's see how much CCP Marketing is singing the praises of all the null sec zealots in about 6 or 7 months.
Let's see how excited they are about all this player driven content when the null sec zealots have shut down 3 or 4 trade hubs simultaneously, without warning this time, and crushed a lot of high sec industrial players enough they quit the game.

Frankly, the concept of financially crushing high sec is a hugely daunting task, and I would impressed at the logistics of making it happen. What I cannot stand is the maliciousness and reason for doing it: to drive players out of high sec or out of the game.

I thought we were ~having no effect~. Fail cascading? Being beaten up and chased off by the Jita scammers.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#266 - 2012-05-04 02:30:25 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
I'm not sure your strategy of repeating over and over again that someone who spends 90% of his time in High Sec is "not High Sec" is really that convincing.
Good thing that I'm not doing that then.

Now, if you want to talk about a bad strategy, relying on strawman arguments is pretty high on that list.


Yes you did. You are on a message board. Not real life. You can't re-remember here.

Me:
Quote:
If someone spends 75% of his time running missions with one character and 25% of his time mining in Null Sec with the other, then is he Null Sec or High Sec?


You:
Quote:
¬(Highsec) for the simple reason that he obviously can stand the idea of being outside of highsec.


So yes, you said exactly that.

No wait! You said Not for 75% not 90% and that is so totally different and I am a big meanie for saying they are the same thing!

I should apologize for pointing out that you are not making sense!

Come on, use the "I am being a meanie" defense, you know you want to!
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#267 - 2012-05-04 02:31:25 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
oh look another npc forum alt demagogue

let me ask you OP, why isn't it in CCP's best interest to cater to the needs of those who generate the vast majority of publicity and word of mouth for their game, while creating the majority of immersive content as well. Is your combo of veldspar mining and posting dumbass rants with your alt really enriching the experience for others?


I'm sure that "ordered Goons to drive another player to suicide" as a headline on Gaming Sites will attract many new players.
And yet at the end of the day, CCP's marketing praises them openly. When's the last time CCP gave a shout out to Pator Tech School's thrilling contributions?



Let's see how much CCP Marketing is singing the praises of all the null sec zealots in about 6 or 7 months.
Let's see how excited they are about all this player driven content when the null sec zealots have shut down 3 or 4 trade hubs simultaneously, without warning this time, and crushed a lot of high sec industrial players enough they quit the game.

Frankly, the concept of financially crushing high sec is a hugely daunting task, and I would impressed at the logistics of making it happen. What I cannot stand is the maliciousness and reason for doing it: to drive players out of high sec or out of the game.


I don't think anyone is coordinated enough to hit 4 trade hubs simultaneously. I think that if it did happen, the press from it would actually bring people into the game.

I think if it could be pulled off, a few people might leave, but a lot of people would probably stay because of how impressive such a thing would be.

Also, it isn't all about the oppression of highsec. A lot of it has to do with market manipulation.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Edington Trent
Prompt Critical
#268 - 2012-05-04 02:31:44 UTC
*warning* I get the feeling you should read this post lightly. I think it's one of the "3 am insane rant" style, but I'm not quite sure.

what I have learned from this thread:

1. trying to read it all before I post feels kind of like running up the down escalator. I'm convinced it got at least three pages longer while I was reading it.

2.
Mythrandier wrote:
[
Keep it dangerous, keep it risky. That sense of “here goes” every time you undock should never leave us.

awesome quote, this is going in my signature

3. Graphs on eve offline go from right to left, mind is blown

4. Someone likes MST3K as much as I do

5. getting eve players to agree on anything is harder than herding cats

I question the sanity of this entire debate. Every kind of space should be needed in some way to produce goods. Is the issue here that people who live in 0.0 use highsec alts but people who live in highsec never go into low/0.0? I live in highsec, I'll freely admit that, so I'm probably one of those "don't bother me" type people you were talking about.

But I've realized something lately. Living in highsec all the time is bloody boring. You gotta get out there and pvp sometimes. What's the point of having isk if you don't spend it on anything? I still suck at pvp, but it is really fun. Small scale stuff anyway, I don't have any experience with massive fleet ops so I can't comment on that, but I don't think that would be as interesting to me. I wouldn't want to live in 0.0 because like I said I can't be bothered with political stuff, but I've got nothing against anyone who does and recognize that it has a completely different set of challenges than living in highsec does.

Ok, enough derailment, I'm basicly saying "can't we all just get along"? I guess the answer to that is no, as long as carebears think that highsec should be completely safe, nullbears think that highsec is dumb and it shouldn't exist, and everyone refuses to admit that any playstyle other than their favorite one should be allowed to exist.
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#269 - 2012-05-04 02:31:59 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Let's see how much CCP Marketing is singing the praises of all the null sec zealots in about 6 or 7 months. Let's see how excited they are about all this player driven content when the null sec zealots have shut down 3 or 4 trade hubs simultaneously, without warning this time, and crushed a lot of high sec industrial players enough they quit the game.


"Eve is dying because of something I don't like" Eve-o GD argument #595,635.

Eve should be dead about half a million times according to the bleating of hisec forum warriors. Your argument is comical.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#270 - 2012-05-04 02:33:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lapine Davion
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Let's see how much CCP Marketing is singing the praises of all the null sec zealots in about 6 or 7 months.
Let's see how excited they are about all this player driven content when the null sec zealots have shut down 3 or 4 trade hubs simultaneously, without warning this time, and crushed a lot of high sec industrial players enough they quit the game.

Frankly, the concept of financially crushing high sec is a hugely daunting task, and I would impressed at the logistics of making it happen. What I cannot stand is the maliciousness and reason for doing it: to drive players out of high sec or out of the game.

I thought we were ~having no effect~. Fail cascading? Being beaten up and chased off by the Jita scammers.


These people can't make up their minds. Are we fail cascading or not? Did we have an effect on the game or not? Did we just petition an exploit, or did we call up a dev on Skype?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Shian Yang
#271 - 2012-05-04 02:33:22 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Let's see how much CCP Marketing is singing the praises of all the null sec zealots in about 6 or 7 months.

...

What I cannot stand is the maliciousness and reason for doing it: to drive players out of high sec or out of the game.


Greetings capsuleer Snetterton,

You have missed:


  • Fun as a motivating factor
  • Playing villains as a motivating factor
  • Furthering the story of New Eden through a revenge style attack
  • Players enjoying the freedom of the environment


However, considering the nature of life in New Eden and the events that have coloured its history over the past 9 years - why do you believe the following 6 months would be any different than a random 6 month slice at any time? Nothing has fundamentally changed, except it would seem, for someone like you discovering that New Eden is not the land of fluffy pink unicorns.

Regards,

Shian Yang
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#272 - 2012-05-04 02:35:55 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Let's see how much CCP Marketing is singing the praises of all the null sec zealots in about 6 or 7 months.
Let's see how excited they are about all this player driven content when the null sec zealots have shut down 3 or 4 trade hubs simultaneously, without warning this time, and crushed a lot of high sec industrial players enough they quit the game.

Frankly, the concept of financially crushing high sec is a hugely daunting task, and I would impressed at the logistics of making it happen. What I cannot stand is the maliciousness and reason for doing it: to drive players out of high sec or out of the game.

I thought we were ~having no effect~. Fail cascading? Being beaten up and chased off by the Jita scammers.


These people can't make up their minds. Are we fail cascading or ont? Did we have an effect on the game or not? Did we just petition an exploit, or did we call up a dev on Skype?

Well... definitely calling dev on skype.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#273 - 2012-05-04 02:36:38 UTC
Edington Trent wrote:
*warning* I get the feeling you should read this post lightly. I think it's one of the "3 am insane rant" style, but I'm not quite sure.

what I have learned from this thread:

1. trying to read it all before I post feels kind of like running up the down escalator. I'm convinced it got at least three pages longer while I was reading it.

2.
Mythrandier wrote:
[
Keep it dangerous, keep it risky. That sense of “here goes” every time you undock should never leave us.

awesome quote, this is going in my signature

3. Graphs on eve offline go from right to left, mind is blown

4. Someone likes MST3K as much as I do

5. getting eve players to agree on anything is harder than herding cats

I question the sanity of this entire debate. Every kind of space should be needed in some way to produce goods. Is the issue here that people who live in 0.0 use highsec alts but people who live in highsec never go into low/0.0? I live in highsec, I'll freely admit that, so I'm probably one of those "don't bother me" type people you were talking about.

But I've realized something lately. Living in highsec all the time is bloody boring. You gotta get out there and pvp sometimes. What's the point of having isk if you don't spend it on anything? I still suck at pvp, but it is really fun. Small scale stuff anyway, I don't have any experience with massive fleet ops so I can't comment on that, but I don't think that would be as interesting to me. I wouldn't want to live in 0.0 because like I said I can't be bothered with political stuff, but I've got nothing against anyone who does and recognize that it has a completely different set of challenges than living in highsec does.

Ok, enough derailment, I'm basicly saying "can't we all just get along"? I guess the answer to that is no, as long as carebears think that highsec should be completely safe, nullbears think that highsec is dumb and it shouldn't exist, and everyone refuses to admit that any playstyle other than their favorite one should be allowed to exist.


I'm afraid you have left that place I like to call "reality". The level of stupidly false idiocy being screamed out 24/7 by Null Bears shows that Null Bears are not called on their trash and feel free to litter the place with it.

Besides some random nobody posting a "super whine thread", High Seccers are at least somewhat fact based.

Goons rely on "screaming in your face crowd intimidation". This tactic works good when you can actually beat to death the person you are trying to threaten. Over the internet, it is a bluff waiting to be called.
TheButcherPete
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#274 - 2012-05-04 02:39:23 UTC
If you guys are so pissed that highsec is about to change, do what I did when Incursions came out, and the downfall of LP worth:

Move to 0.0

I can't scream HTFU louder. Do you kids realise that highsec will most likely *never* net you the gains that 0.0 activity will?

And in most circumstances, 0.0 is more secure than the best highsec system for various reasons.

Come on people, there's a reason why CCP made 0.0 in the first place, THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO LIVE IN HIGHSEC FOR EIGHT YEARS, then throw in the towel because you're "bored"



My two cents on you silly highbears.


Signed,
a Nullbear.

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#275 - 2012-05-04 02:39:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
business growing =/= population growing
Good thing that both have grown, then.


lol, yeah, it's grown so quickly that CCP had to fire 20% of it's employees due to the growing pains.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#276 - 2012-05-04 02:40:04 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Edington Trent wrote:
*warning* I get the feeling you should read this post lightly. I think it's one of the "3 am insane rant" style, but I'm not quite sure.

what I have learned from this thread:

1. trying to read it all before I post feels kind of like running up the down escalator. I'm convinced it got at least three pages longer while I was reading it.

2.
Mythrandier wrote:
[
Keep it dangerous, keep it risky. That sense of “here goes” every time you undock should never leave us.

awesome quote, this is going in my signature

3. Graphs on eve offline go from right to left, mind is blown

4. Someone likes MST3K as much as I do

5. getting eve players to agree on anything is harder than herding cats

I question the sanity of this entire debate. Every kind of space should be needed in some way to produce goods. Is the issue here that people who live in 0.0 use highsec alts but people who live in highsec never go into low/0.0? I live in highsec, I'll freely admit that, so I'm probably one of those "don't bother me" type people you were talking about.

But I've realized something lately. Living in highsec all the time is bloody boring. You gotta get out there and pvp sometimes. What's the point of having isk if you don't spend it on anything? I still suck at pvp, but it is really fun. Small scale stuff anyway, I don't have any experience with massive fleet ops so I can't comment on that, but I don't think that would be as interesting to me. I wouldn't want to live in 0.0 because like I said I can't be bothered with political stuff, but I've got nothing against anyone who does and recognize that it has a completely different set of challenges than living in highsec does.

Ok, enough derailment, I'm basicly saying "can't we all just get along"? I guess the answer to that is no, as long as carebears think that highsec should be completely safe, nullbears think that highsec is dumb and it shouldn't exist, and everyone refuses to admit that any playstyle other than their favorite one should be allowed to exist.


I'm afraid you have left that place I like to call "reality". The level of stupidly false idiocy being screamed out 24/7 by Null Bears shows that Null Bears are not called on their trash and feel free to litter the place with it.

Besides some random nobody posting a "super whine thread", High Seccers are at least somewhat fact based.

Goons rely on "screaming in your face crowd intimidation". This tactic works good when you can actually beat to death the person you are trying to threaten. Over the internet, it is a bluff waiting to be called.


You talk a lot about "goons screaming in your face" but I see a lot of screaming in this post. You didn't even bother to refute any post of the well worded post, you just said, "You're stupid and I hate you and your kind."

Don't be a lazy poster, use your brain.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#277 - 2012-05-04 02:40:58 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Let's see how much CCP Marketing is singing the praises of all the null sec zealots in about 6 or 7 months. Let's see how excited they are about all this player driven content when the null sec zealots have shut down 3 or 4 trade hubs simultaneously, without warning this time, and crushed a lot of high sec industrial players enough they quit the game.


"Eve is dying because of something I don't like" Eve-o GD argument #595,635.

Eve should be dead about half a million times according to the bleating of hisec forum warriors. Your argument is comical.


Eve is the only real spaceship MMO currently. As such it can survive a tremendous amount of idiocy. I really expect it to continue doing moderately okay though admittedly the unholy determination to destroy themselves could yield some decline in subscriptions. A new real competitor would be bad. Like Charlie Manson moving next door bad.

Watch what happens to Dust 514 when it goes up against the First Team in the FPS market. Their heads will be handed to them like the newbies they are. It won't even be funny. It'll be like one of those car wrecks you can't look away from.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#278 - 2012-05-04 02:41:37 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
business growing =/= population growing
Good thing that both have grown, then.


lol, yeah, it's grown so quickly that CCP had to fire 20% of it's employees due to the growing pains.


You mean like they did right after that carebear expansion Incarna came out? The numbers don't seem to be in your favor.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Vince Snetterton
#279 - 2012-05-04 02:43:04 UTC
Shian Yang wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Let's see how much CCP Marketing is singing the praises of all the null sec zealots in about 6 or 7 months.

...

What I cannot stand is the maliciousness and reason for doing it: to drive players out of high sec or out of the game.


Greetings capsuleer Snetterton,

You have missed:


  • Fun as a motivating factor
  • Playing villains as a motivating factor
  • Furthering the story of New Eden through a revenge style attack
  • Players enjoying the freedom of the environment


However, considering the nature of life in New Eden and the events that have coloured its history over the past 9 years - why do you believe the following 6 months would be any different than a random 6 month slice at any time? Nothing has fundamentally changed, except it would seem, for someone like you discovering that New Eden is not the land of fluffy pink unicorns.

Regards,

Shian Yang


Whatever.

I have read the failed lawyer's most recent post on Ten Ton Hammer,
I have heard his state of the nation that was broadcast shortly after his ban.
I have read about the new death squads hunting anyone who slagged the asshat before and during his ban.
I have read about how the CSM's high sec member's alliance (apologies to that person for me missing them completely re: the makeup of the CSM) is being dec'ed for speaking out against the failed lawyer.

You are just another propaganda specialist.
You are your ilk would have fit right in during 1930's Germany or 1950's Russia or 1950's united states.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#280 - 2012-05-04 02:44:19 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Darth Tickles wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Let's see how much CCP Marketing is singing the praises of all the null sec zealots in about 6 or 7 months. Let's see how excited they are about all this player driven content when the null sec zealots have shut down 3 or 4 trade hubs simultaneously, without warning this time, and crushed a lot of high sec industrial players enough they quit the game.


"Eve is dying because of something I don't like" Eve-o GD argument #595,635.

Eve should be dead about half a million times according to the bleating of hisec forum warriors. Your argument is comical.


Eve is the only real spaceship MMO currently. As such it can survive a tremendous amount of idiocy. I really expect it to continue doing moderately okay though admittedly the unholy determination to destroy themselves could yield some decline in subscriptions. A new real competitor would be bad. Like Charlie Manson moving next door bad.

Watch what happens to Dust 514 when it goes up against the First Team in the FPS market. Their heads will be handed to them like the newbies they are. It won't even be funny. It'll be like one of those car wrecks you can't look away from.


We will see. I don't think it will bomb, but it won't pull in the same numbers the other, more established FPSes do. At least not at first.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]