EVE General Discussion

What are they doing?
Ganking Mackinaws.

Why?
Because it somehow has some effect on all Tech 2 Productions

So what?
They think it will collapse the entire EVE economy.

Oh?
Yep.

So What do we do about it?
Hell if I know.

Where did you read about this?
Some website I can't link beings with a K though.

So you read something who cares?
Also a goon in recruitment told me about it.

Goons are idiots?
So are alot of people.

Do you like popcorn?
I like the sweet and salty kettle corn.

What is your favorite color?
Red.

Do you have any pets?
Yes, I have a cat.

Do you have a facebook?
I totally do and I want you to be my friend.

eh wrong on most accounts.

By ganking all the oxygen isotopes out of the market, you put a hamper on most alliances super cap fleets. Nyx's are the favored mom of all the mom's and they run on oxygen, also many research towers run off of oxygen isotopes.

So by doing this you will cripple a lot of t2 production and a lot of super cap movement.

However this puts more isk in the DRF pockets as all of drone regions has thick blue ice.

Also there was an issue of what would happen if you removed high sec ice. This proves what would happen. isotope prices would go out of control.

This sounds a lot like a crazy consipiracy... Why do you want to know if i have any pets if it wasn't?

Who are goons ? And why there is plenty of posts/threads about them ?

Anyway if you dissagree with some group policy or intention to change the world to their acknowledged shape and flavor do something about it, dont write posts/threads on forums.

I'm seeing a surprising lack of dead exhumers and CONCORD in Brapelille.

Typical Goons: so focussed on making ISK they don't think about how they're playing into their enemies strong points.

"Let's make a fortune selling super caps!"
"Oh crap! Where did DRF get all those supers?"

"Let's make a fortune short squeezing blue ice!"
"Oh crap! Where did DRF get all that ISK?"

/facepalm

Goonswarm Shrugged

It's time to inflict Goonswarm's rage on Empire once again. kittenswarm was a way for Goons to cause suffering and rage in unsuspecting pubbies, who (naturally) had no idea that they could be hurt in empire space. Unfortunately, kittenswarm had few lasting effects on the EVE universe. By hitting everywhere, it failed to hit hard enough in any one spot. That all has changed now, as the finance team has come up with a way to hit a small slice of empire space, and yet have a much larger impact. The isolated pain of random pubbies is not enough. It is time for Goonswarm to hurt everyone in EVE, and so reap the misery of a wronged universe.

We're going to wreck the entire EVE economy

What The frack?

All of EVE depends on fuel, and an extra-special amount of EVE depends on Oxygen Isotopes. These are the fuel for the most popular types of supercapitals, the Rorqual industrial ship, and for Gallente towers, which are the backbone of moon mineral reaction chains and thus of T2 production all across EVE. The economy depends on Oxytopes like it does on few other resources. If anything were to happen to the price of this one item, the howls would be louder than anything short of removing Veldspar from the game. (For some numbers, to supply the Oxytopes addiction of Jita alone, it takes approximately 200 Mackinaws mining Blue Ice 23/7...forever.)

Guess what we're going to do?

The Where

Blue Ice is found in 17 highsec systems in EVE. Of those, 15 are frequented by ice miners regularly (the other two are deep "island" systems) and can be roughly divided into two areas. The directorate has spent the last two weeks organizing and dropping alliance towers in all of these systems, acquiring Goonwaffe offices in cloning stations, and testing fits for ganking Mackinaws and Hulks in 0.5, 0.6, and 0.7 space. This thread and the relevant wiki pages (linked below) will collect all of this information and provide Goons with the tools they need to do violence to supply side of the Oxytopes market.


Ardallabier 0.7 7-11
Brapelille 0.7 5-1
Jaschercis 0.6 1-1
Stegette 0.5 3-1 Shallow island highsec
Angymonne 0.6 4-1
Aydoteaux 0.7 8-15
Carirgnottin 0.6 8-10
Ignebaener 0.5 6-2
Tolle 0.7 1-1
Actee 0.5 4-1 Deep island highsec
Niballe 0.6 Oerse No POS Solitude, the island region


As you can see from this table, each system has a safe POS (set for alliance access, password 420) which also has an SMA for alliance usage. This allows easy transfer of ships to characters with -5 or lower security status, although the faction navies will in fact hunt you even through POS shields! In addition, some systems do not have a Goonwaffe office with medical services available; in that case the nearest available cloning office is noted. Our major "market" bases will be in Ardallabier and Tolle, and rich alliance members are encouraged to stock Ruptures, Thoraxes, Brutixes, Hurricanes, Typhoons, and the various mods which are the tools of the suicide gank.

Goonswarm itself will be covering the Ardallabier pocket: all goonswarm allies who want to participate should cover the Tolle pocket. Since we want 100% coverage, you can leave your pocket if it's overcrowded - just check around it first before leaving. Membercorps and squads can and should choose a "home" system: we want complete lockdown.

The two systems in the "unimportant" category have much lower activity, but we suspect that activity there will increase dramatically after a week or two, as well as in lowsec, Syndicate, and Outer Ring. At that point we will turn our focus there, delivering death teams to isolated islands via carrier and sending Goons prowling through lowsec ice systems or infiltrating ice-mining corps with spies. This is a later job for aspiring small-gang-warfare Goons -- after all, if you can't lose a 100MN AB Tengu to an Orca, you're really not ready for Black Ops.

The Who

You! Well, maybe. As you know, we have an ongoing campaign in Delve which is our strategic priority. For the time people, people actively fighting in Delve should stay there -- don't move to empire just to gank Mackinaws while Vee needs you to kill the cylon remnants of the NC. Do, however, bring alts, 10-hour heros, and anything else you can spare to help out, IF you can do so without affecting the war effort.

This is a project which (as detailed in the wiki pages) responds well to alts, especially due to the need for them to help with re-shipping once your sec status gets low enough. In addition, since a lot of goons and allies will be doing this, it is perfectly possible to use low-skill, 10-hour-hero-style alts in groups of 2-4. A turdsty alt with low skills who couldn't pull off a Thorax gank solo can easily do it with 1-2 partners, and this lets us involve newbees and use alts while our combat mains are off in Delve or wherever. Do this! Furthermore, the directorate has engaged a number of Orca alts to act as roving Death Trucks, able to warp to unsuspecting targets (an Orca in an ice belt, no biggie) and dispense fitted Thoraxes and Ruptures to Goons in need. Again, see the wiki pages and later spoilers in this OP for details and ideas.

The When

Goonswarm Shrugged starts today. Mittani is probably ganking things in his Brutix right now.

We're going to maintain this for at least a few weeks: the goal is to drain Jita of even the most absurdly priced Oxytopes. Fifty million units of Oxytopes are used each day, so as we keep blue ice belts empty the universe will start exhausting its (now hideously overpriced) stockpiles. There will be a constant influx of new pubbies wondering why Oxytopes are so expensive and figuring they'll mine some and be rich, so we anticipate that these 15 systems will remain a target-rich enviroment for some time.

Edit: Removed offensive reference - ISD Suvetar

The How

What follows is a bunch of information that we haven't imported into the wiki properly yet, but the directorate wrote a ton of :words: and we're including it here so that you guys have a rough guide, especially if you are a newbee who has never danced with CONCORD.

MOST IMPORTANT THING: Join the Jabber conference gonegalt -- this is a public channel intended for anyone who is participating, and we'll use it to coordinate who is hitting which systems, make fleets, do team ganks, talk about corps to put 10-hour-heroes in, and so forth.

Here's the wiki pages from the old kittenswarm, for some detailed information:
https://wiki.goonfleet.com/kittenswarm -- frontpage / main article for ganking
https://wiki.goonfleet.com/Mad_Bombers -- How to smartbomb groups of macks
https://wiki.goonfleet.com/Classic_kitten -- has the standard thorax/etc fits

Logistics and Supply Routes

Each 'pocket' has a central hub. If you want to make money, stock that hub with thoraxes/brutixes/fittings/ect. If you've got an empire freighter, and are moving stuff, please pipe up in the gonegalt channel if you have extra room. If you want someone to move stuff for you, be polite: buy it yourself, use a courier contract so it's as easy as possible for whoever is helping you out.

In-system, if you have an alt that can move ships to an SMA, please help people out who can't: it doesn't take long and is a huge help for people who have dropped to pirate status and don't have a trained carrying alt yet.

Dealing with Concord

Ganking relies on doing enough damage before CONCORD shows up and ends the party. That means if CONCORD is already in the belt, you can't gank: they will instantly jam you as soon as you fire. So if CONCORD ships are already in the belt, you need to move them out so you can get the full amount of ganking time.

In addition, the first spawn of the day will arrive 6 seconds early: it takes 6 seconds for CONCORD to warp once they are 'alerted' (alert time varies by sec status, anywhere from near immediate to 15+ seconds), but if they haven't been spawned they will merely spawn right on top of you. If you're the first person to gank in the system that day you need to "prep" the system: go get a newbie ship and shoot something in a non-ice belt or shoot a pos. Once you're destroyed, the system is ready.

Here's how you clean up CONCORD if it happens to be in the belt you want to hit:

CLEANING UP YOUR OWN CONCORD SPAWN


Cleaning up your own CONCORD spawn, so other people can make their own attack runs, is actually really easy. Dock at the closest station to the belt you just ganked in, then immediately undock in a newbie ship and don't move - simply drift for 30 seconds with your docking immunity. This will pull CONCORD to you, and since you have your docking immunity sentry guns will not kill you before CONCORD gets there. If multiple people participated in a gank, they should all do this at the same time.

Please make sure to clean up your own CONCORD spawns whenever possible: it makes life easier for everyone else and really isn't very difficult.


CLEARING OTHER PEOPLE'S CONCORD SPAWNS


Sometimes clever pubbies, or lazy goons, will leave a spawn in a belt. You need to get rid of that before you gank, or you'll be instagibbed when you gank (unless you're in a Galtpest).

Concord usually only spawns one fleet per system. Concord, once spawned, will travel from place to place dealing with anything that shoots something they shouldn't. That means you just need to summon CONCORD somewhere else: take a newbieship in an alt and plink something - a GSC, or the staging pos. Just don't do it near faction police or sentry guns, so you don't die before CONCORD gets there.

If two people gank at once, however, there will be two fleets. It appears that the closest spawn is the one that moves: ergo get closer to the spawn you want to move (nearby belt, nearby pos, whatever) than the one you don't, then summon it. If all else fails, use safespots just off-grid. Don't worry about CONCORD being close: they take a flat 6 seconds to warp regardless of distance.


Now, for some more info:

IDIOT'S GUIDE TO GANKING


1)ADD CONCORD TO YOUR OVERVIEW. Seriously. Otherwise you're not going to notice Concord is already in the belt and get waxed immediately.

2)Make a hotkey for "engage drones". I like to use F9, then line up all of my mods I'm going to fire next to it, so I can mash, say, f4,f5,-f9. Drones are a key part of your dps and you need them engaged asap.

3)Do you have a high enough sec status to fly around in the system without getting gibbed by the faction police? Great! You should probably stock up the SMA with a few ships while you still can, and train a Mr. Happystandings (see below). If not, see the section below on life as a pirate.

4)A gank is 'lined up' with an alt. This alt futzes around the belt, and then sits next to a juicy-looking target. Your ganking ship then warps to your alt. If the miner is watching, they may notice you sitting next to them and get the frack out - if that happens, just line up a new gank. Even non-bots only pay attention every 10m or so.

5)Warp to your alt. Launch drones, then come to a complete stop (if you're in a blaster ship). Lock the target, then fire/tp/scram/web, then hit your engage drones hotkey (you made one, right?). Now, watch and wait. Once the ship blows up, use your alt (the one you lined up the gank with) to scoop the loot, then loot your own ship when CONCORD blows it up. Warp both your pod and your alt back to the closest station.

6)Immediately board a rookie ship or shuttle with your ganking alt, and undock. Don't touch anything after you do: wait for CONCORD to blow you up. You've just cleared CONCORD from the belt so the next guy can start his attack run.

7)turds up local something fierce.

ALTS:


Mr Happystandings:
We've set up POS in each system you can use to reship if your sec status is too low to fly ships around without getting killed by the faction police. However, you need to get those ships to the pos. This is where Mr. Happystandings comes in: this is an alt that can sit in the hull and online all the mods, but you don't gank with. You need to be able to online all the mods: you don't have time to online them as an outlaw. Your best bet is probably going to be another character you have that doesn't have great gunnery skills or the shiptypes you need, but has some: this way you can quickly train up the necessary skills to online everything.

Alternatively, if you want to go madbombing, you can roll a new alt. Since all this alt needs to do is have BS I/II depending on your race, and energy pulse weapons I, it can be done really quickly. Then, you make two more, and you have a dedicated smartbombing team!


SHIPS TO USE


These are your standbys:
GUNS: Thorax, Brutix, Rupture, Hurricane, Dominix

In general, a thorax with good skills will kill a mack anywhere, provided you don't frack up. The brutix is for that odd hulk that insists on not getting out, while the dominix is for those especially stubborn hulks that try to fit a frackoff tank and live. Don't let them live. The general way you fit these is simple: the lows are damage mods, the highs are guns, filled with a few rounds of faction ammo. Depending on your budget and market availability, you can use t1, meta 2-3, or t2. I recommend t2 damage mods: they're cheap, and they add a ton of oomph. Meta 2-3 will probably be non-existent: a few days of refining tactics has cleared out most of EVE of the necessary mods, so it's unlikely they'll survive a full goonrush. The mids should be a mix of the following: web, scram (keep them in place on the off chance this isn't a bot), target painter (hulks and macks have small sigs) and/or tracking computers.

ALPHA: Tempest

Ask Weaselior about this. If you're rich and lazy, a Tempest can alpha a mackinaw easily, so you don't really care if CONCORD is in the belt with you or not. Only recommended for rich players with ISK to blow on an unnecessarily expensive hull. (Or for a team-gank of an Orca, but there are better ways to accomplish that.)

Weaselior's Galtpest:
In essence: highs gallium cannons, republic fleet emp
mids: sensor boosters, tracking computers, a warp disruptor (t2 preferably) and a passive targeter.
lows: gyrostabs

Tends to do 7-9k alpha with decent skills and implants. This is enough for almost all mackinaws, but not most hulks. Plan accordingly.

In .6 and .5 systems you may get a second shot off: this means you should lock two mackinaws at once, blow one out of the sky, then start mashing f1 again to try to get shot #2 off. I've never actually pulled this off: one time I got concorded, the other the second guy warped off in time. To avoid this you should fit a warp disruptor and scram the second guy after you fire your first shot. Since this is artillery, come in at ~20km rather than at zero like with blaster ships.

SMARTBOMBS: Typhoon, Armageddon

Aryth's favorite is the 8-smartbomb battleship, combined with implants and cap boosters (to overcome CONCORD neuting) that can take out every Mackinaw in a 5km radius. These won't be that useful within a few days once the packs of Macks have fled to Caldari space, but by god it is fun to kill 5 Macks at a time.


MITTANI'S NEWBEE GUIDE:

Here's what I do.

Orca (key since it allows you to pop Brutixes out of your SMA in a safespot, when your pilot is a pirate, and generally can cart 10+ brutixes and fittings around the galaxy). This can be replaced by a guy that can online all the mods on a brutix, who ferries your brutixes out to the POS SMA.
Prowler/Warpin ship - Salvager, Cloak (not needed but handy), Passive Targ + Ship Scanner (nbd for macks, key for hulks)

Brutix:

7x Anode Neutron Particle Cannons
5x Gauss Field Balancer
1x Warp Scram
1x Target Painter I
5x Hammerhead Is
2x Hybrid Collision Accels

28 rounds of CN Antimatter, maybe a fifth salvo if you're going after a Hulk in .5 and feeling lucky

IMPLANTS - ACTUALLY VERY IMPORTANT:

Squire PG4 - lets you use 2x Collision Accels easily
Deadeye ZGM1000 - 5% damage, woop
Gunslinger CX-2 - 5% damage, woopwoop

I mostly designed this setup to go after Hulks. Macks are a certain kill regardless of what they happen to have. I comfortably whacked Macks using an identical (but 5-gun) Thorax setup, but I bring Brutixes in my Orca because it's impossible to hit a Hulk in a Thorax. My Orca has stacks of 100 of each relevant module bulk-bought in Jita. After each gank, my Prowler (which is 10km off the target) blunders over, loots the dead barge (often very profitable if the miners drop) and recovers guns from the gank-Brutix wreck. This can make your ganking equipment last a lot longer between Jita runs.

Key tips: Drones must be told to aggress, have a hotkey. Warp in, approach target (should be within 3km or less if you're not bad at eve), pop drones, commence targetting, activate everything while targetting. Have heat on (duh). When the targetting finishes you'll get the concord warning, pres butan and mash your drone aggro hotkey. This is really low-stress with Macks. Turn turrets and effects on so you can see which barges are actively shieldboosting and mining. Lower your resolution and use small windows because frack it, you're in hisec, there's no need for a high-input setup. Show all brackets always so you can see if Concord is in the belt.

Hulks can be a real dog in .6 if they have any kind of tank, as Concord sometimes spawns too fast. You can usually get a Hulk in .5 solo with no trouble though. Brutix + Thorax or god forbid 2x Brutix can nuke any hulk in .6 or .5.

Edit: Removed offensive reference - ISD Suvetar

ittani's hard-won lessons from being -5 and getting chased around all day by the faction po-po
1. Don't **** around with Thoraxes below -5. The po-po can kill you before you get your shots off, even with a dcII. Using a Brutix (with a DCII) you can mostly ignore them.

2. Always have combat logging enabled and open during ganks so you can diagnose what went wrong - and something ~will~ go wrong as you adjust to the police.

3. Use a sensor booster with a locktime script on your brutix. You need to lock and fire on a barge quickly due to the police. This wasn't necessary before piracy.

4. Barge-only overview setting for your pirate. The less turds to misclick on during a gank attempt, the fewer flubbed ganks.

5. Some kind of Concord-clearing method - either hop into a stored velator from the GSF pos's SMA while you have a countdown aggro (very pro trick, thanks Kismeteer!) or have a throwaway alt in a velator zot an anchored GSC in one of the belts. Nothing is as frustrating as Concord guarding cylons in belts.

6. It doesn't matter much if the faction police are already in your target belt. They'll instawarp to you and begin shooting you, but you mostly don't care because you're in a Brutix now.

7. It's always better to spend the isk on t2 damage modules than deal with the shame of a flubbed gank because you tried to save a few million isk.

8. Before piracy, I would lazily launch my drones before trying to lock prey. This is verrrry bad as a pirate, as seconds count. Activate fracking everything while in warp. While spamming lock and approach, launch your drones, click the concord butan, and mash your drone engage hotkey (you DO have a drone engage hotkey right? go make one). as a brutix most of your dps comes from blaster facefracking so drones are helpful but not key like with a thorax

9. drones engage hotkey motherfracker





What To Do When You Encounter Resistance

Some pubbies learn. Unfortunately, they don't learn the lesson they should be learning: to get the frack out. They will attempt to resist: either through running remote reps, running ganglinks on their orcas and tanking their macks and hulks, or other methods to attempt to stay put. This cannot be tolerated. If you find you're unable to gank something, pipe up in the gonegalt channel and get a crew together to kill it, or get someone to bring a facefrack dominix or the like. Those who refuse to bend will be broken.

Bots

Goonswarm has been unfairly characterized as bot-friendly, and we'ds like to counteract that. Basically all ice miners are bots. Report them after you kill them! This way, not only do you kill them, you get them temp-banned!


Finally... WHEW.

cleaned and posted, as the illegal link to the website will be burned, and yeah.

Why does that sound like a violation of the eula some place or against some rule?