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Lets Talk About Inferno’s [Questionable] New Wardec Mechanics

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#101 - 2012-05-03 23:36:45 UTC
Fannie Maes wrote:
[Yet goons, test and CFC with CCP have decided that unless you want to be a drone in an alliance of thousands you have no place in eve, even if all you want to do is mine in high-sec.

How large are NPC corps?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#102 - 2012-05-03 23:43:30 UTC
OP or

What if it worked like this.

Smaller corp / alliance attacks a larger corp / alliance flat 50 mill price

Larger Corporation / Alliance attacks a small corporation / Alliance
Price is 50 mill + the number of members above the alliance you are attacking.

So 1002 Alliance attacks a 2 person corp would be 550 mill.

All the other rules applies when it comes to multiple wars etc.

Would that square things up ?

Smaller corps or alliances have protection in a ISK price to war dec them and the larger has what they always had, pure numbers

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#103 - 2012-05-03 23:45:54 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
"Oh god, my logi pilots have to know what they're doing and I can't pay pocket change for hundreds of targets anymore!"

You know where you don't have to pay ISK to kill people? Low, Null and WH space. Perhaps you should try leaving the crib.

What people like you, and people on the CSM... and thus CCP, does not understand. Is that many of us ******* hate null sec life, politics, your leadership, and the stupid mindless ******* blob. That is why we are not out there, it has nothing to do with how we choose to PVP.

Well I see you at least hate people blobbing neutral RR guardians on stations, so that's fair enough.

I did get a kick out of seeing an Abaddon with 5 RR Guardians get popped instantly by 40 Tornados. Ah, alphastrike-based doctrines.


Nerf Tornados. OP. That is all. 
"If."
Fannie Maes
Doomheim
#104 - 2012-05-03 23:47:56 UTC
Nephilius wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
"Oh god, my logi pilots have to know what they're doing and I can't pay pocket change for hundreds of targets anymore!"

You know where you don't have to pay ISK to kill people? Low, Null and WH space. Perhaps you should try leaving the crib.

What people like you, and people on the CSM... and thus CCP, does not understand. Is that many of us ******* hate null sec life, politics, your leadership, and the stupid mindless ******* blob. That is why we are not out there, it has nothing to do with how we choose to PVP.

Well I see you at least hate people blobbing neutral RR guardians on stations, so that's fair enough.

I did get a kick out of seeing an Abaddon with 5 RR Guardians get popped instantly by 40 Tornados. Ah, alphastrike-based doctrines.


Nerf Tornados. OP. That is all.



You are not allowed to nerf Goon and CFC fleet doctrine.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#105 - 2012-05-03 23:50:22 UTC
Fannie Maes wrote:

You are not allowed to nerf Goon and CFC fleet doctrine.


Tornadoes are not fleet doctrine, FYI.
Fannie Maes
Doomheim
#106 - 2012-05-03 23:50:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Twulf wrote:
If it was a true Sandbox game then any play style would be valid. Even solo play would be a valid option. Even in a Multiplayer game, if it is a Sandbox, solo play would be valid.
…and as luck would have it, it is valid because EVE is a sandbox game — there is no “hybrid” about it. Nothing in the game forces you to not solo. What makes soloing a bad idea is the fact that, being a sandbox, the other kids will have banded together to take all the sand and will hit you with their spades (and they have an awful lot of spades) if you try to take any of it back.

What makes your play style “invalid” (which is the wrong word — “suboptimal” or “inefficient” would be a better choice) is the fact that the social construct that has grown out of this sandbox has yielded an environment where you will not be able to keep up with the Joneses if you choose to do everything yourself. This does not make the game any less of a sandbox — quite the opposite: it is an effect of the game being a sandbox, not a cause of some kind of non-sandbox:iness.

Fannie Maes wrote:
Yet goons, test and CFC with CCP have decided that unless you want to be a drone in an alliance of thousands you have no place in eve, even if all you want to do is mine in high-sec.
Lol Humour. You know, you really should vary your routine a bit more, because this kind of completely-detached-from-reality nonsense wears thin very quickly.

Put another way: no, they haven't.



Nice retort, care to explain how I am wrong?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#107 - 2012-05-03 23:51:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Simetraz wrote:
What if it worked like this.

Smaller corp / alliance attacks a larger corp / alliance flat 50 mill price

Larger Corporation / Alliance attacks a small corporation / Alliance
Price is 50 mill + the number of members above the alliance you are attacking.

So 1002 Alliance attacks a 2 person corp would be 550 mill.

All the other rules applies when it comes to multiple wars etc.

Would that square things up ?
Nah. It needs to be adjusted both ways: a smaller corp attacking a larger one or a large corp attacking a smaller one.

My favourite so far is abs( ln( attacker / defender ) / ln(cost scaling factor) ) × scale difference cost + base cost.

…or just abs(attacker - defender) × scale differece cost + base cost.

Fannie Maes wrote:
Nice retort, care to explain how I am wrong?
TEST and CFC does not dictate game changes. They also do not care about how you arrange your group participation. CCP doesn't care about how you arrange your group participation either, and they think any play style you can invent has a place in EVE.
Torneach
Doomheim
#108 - 2012-05-03 23:51:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Torneach
I just think that wardec costs should be calculated purely on difference in SP between the two involved parties.

That way smaller, newbier corps are protected from both large and small veteran-filled corporations, and smaller, skilled corporations can wage war on huge entities with little money paid to NPCs, and instead can focus their finances on fighting the enemy.
Fannie Maes
Doomheim
#109 - 2012-05-03 23:53:08 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Fannie Maes wrote:

You are not allowed to nerf Goon and CFC fleet doctrine.


Tornadoes are not fleet doctrine, FYI.



Please by all means provide a link to all your fleet doctrines in test, goons and CFC and let us all have a laugh at my expense.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#110 - 2012-05-03 23:56:02 UTC
Fannie Maes wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Fannie Maes wrote:

You are not allowed to nerf Goon and CFC fleet doctrine.


Tornadoes are not fleet doctrine, FYI.



Please by all means provide a link to all your fleet doctrines in test, goons and CFC and let us all have a laugh at my expense.


The CFC uses mostly Maelstroms, Scimitars, Drakes, Hurricanes and Zealots. Those are the core ships for most doctrines.

Obviously there are a ton of different support ships mixed in. Tornadoes are not built for fleet warfare.

How do you not know this?
Fannie Maes
Doomheim
#111 - 2012-05-04 00:00:22 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Fannie Maes wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Fannie Maes wrote:

You are not allowed to nerf Goon and CFC fleet doctrine.


Tornadoes are not fleet doctrine, FYI.



Please by all means provide a link to all your fleet doctrines in test, goons and CFC and let us all have a laugh at my expense.


The CFC uses mostly Maelstroms, Scimitars, Drakes, Hurricanes and Zealots. Those are the core ships for most doctrines.

Obviously there are a ton of different support ships mixed in. Tornadoes are not built for fleet warfare.

How do you not know this?



I asked for links, still waiting.



(PS: I do already know this, including their fittings, but I am trying to prove a point and you are helping meCool.)
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#112 - 2012-05-04 00:06:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Fannie Maes wrote:

I asked for links, still waiting.


Do you seriously want me to link you to the wiki? Roll

Also, grats on knowing something everyone in EVE knows, while implying tornadoes are standard doctrine (they get raped by AHACs)
Fannie Maes
Doomheim
#113 - 2012-05-04 00:08:09 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Fannie Maes wrote:

I asked for links, still waiting.


Do you seriously want me to link you to the wiki? Roll


Any link to your fleet doctrine will do just fine, or you can simply cut and paste the fits here.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#114 - 2012-05-04 00:12:47 UTC
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#115 - 2012-05-04 00:15:36 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Do you seriously want me to link you to the wiki? Roll

Also, grats on knowing something everyone in EVE knows, while implying tornadoes are standard doctrine (they get raped by AHACs)

Doesn't AAA have an oracle fleet or something? They shot one of your POSes with it, right?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#116 - 2012-05-04 00:16:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Doesn't AAA have an oracle fleet or something? They shot one of your POSes with it, right?


~Implying we keep track of our POSes that have a habit of mysteriously disappearing~

My explanation was always POS gremlins.
Fannie Maes
Doomheim
#117 - 2012-05-04 00:16:56 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Here you go.



Sorry but the url did not contain CCP so I did not click it.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#118 - 2012-05-04 00:19:40 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Doesn't AAA have an oracle fleet or something? They shot one of your POSes with it, right?

~Implying we keep track of our POSes that have a habit of mysteriously disappearing~

My explanation was always POS gremlins.

Actually I only remember because it was broadcast. During Tenal or something? That they had taken 200 Oracles to shoot a dickstar.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#119 - 2012-05-04 00:20:51 UTC
Excuse my ignorance but I thought there was a new system being implemented that means small corp will be able to call for aid via some sort of contract and the people who agree to help get a free war dec?

Maybe CCP are hoping that people who are looking for a fight will just look through the 'we are at war and need help' and go smush the weakest 'griefing' corp they can find. (I hate to use the term 'griefing' but you know what I mean)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#120 - 2012-05-04 00:30:18 UTC
Ronald Ray Gun wrote:
Excuse my ignorance but I thought there was a new system being implemented that means small corp will be able to call for aid via some sort of contract and the people who agree to help get a free war dec?

Maybe CCP are hoping that people who are looking for a fight will just look through the 'we are at war and need help' and go smush the weakest 'griefing' corp they can find. (I hate to use the term 'griefing' but you know what I mean)
Sure, but they are also assuming that those people will get paid for the effort, and the way the system is currently set up, that won't happen. With the proposed wardec scheme, the merc marketplace will pretty much have to be a pro bono or charity affair. It is unlikely to work as the kind of… well… marketplace they intend it to be because the targets who need the help will not be in a position to pay for it.