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Time Dilation 0%... System Remaps in Future ???

First post
Author
Lord Helghast
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-10-01 01:56:50 UTC
I was watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgXp0S0-wPA&feature=youtu.be

where Veritas demonstrated his god like CCP power with litterally Pausing eve at one point and setting dilation to 100% ... This got me thinking.....

If you can actually pause eve now for a system... Can't you theoretically use that time if the dilation gets to that point to remap the node to a reinforced node.

Not saying it would be easy as i know its been mentioned before, but it just seems since it would be the next logical step after Time Dilation....
Lord Helghast
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-10-01 01:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Helghast
btw the slow mo look at the macharial at the end was f*cking HOT... though the slow mo titan explosion makes u wonder wtf things are exploding in mid space instead of internally to the titan What?

Also the cyno seems to fly off to a spot in space and disappear when its gone but its so fast in non TiDi that you dont see it normally? :( Hope they change that to make it more visible ... as that **** is HOT
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#3 - 2011-10-01 06:09:55 UTC
The more I see this TiDi the more I love it.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Jokerface666
Intergalactic Expeditionary Corp
#4 - 2011-10-01 11:02:02 UTC
looks awesome, and no moar QUADRUPPLE KLICK MODS TO FIRE!

also new cyno efect looks hawt like a modern version of the old one.
Kagan Storm
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-10-01 11:23:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagan Storm
Is it just me or is this scenario possible Somebody test it and feal free to give me the credit :)

Super loogs in. You catch it. It loogs off agreesed.... you dialate time by ungrooping everithing and launching all drones....t ime goes slower for system X lets say 1 sec real time equals 0.5 seconds in game

=========

Now you have 30 min to get reinforsments to kill that super??????????????????

From what i understand everybody in system slows down.
Please confirm. Cool


And usual reason you dont kil la super is cause reinforsments are slow and you dont have enough DPS

My ego is the the size of my carriers jump range.

Phantom Slave
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-10-01 15:32:46 UTC
Kagan Storm wrote:
Is it just me or is this scenario possible Somebody test it and feal free to give me the credit :)

Super loogs in. You catch it. It loogs off agreesed.... you dialate time by ungrooping everithing and launching all drones....t ime goes slower for system X lets say 1 sec real time equals 0.5 seconds in game

=========

Now you have 30 min to get reinforsments to kill that super??????????????????

From what i understand everybody in system slows down.
Please confirm. Cool


And usual reason you dont kil la super is cause reinforsments are slow and you dont have enough DPS


Pretty sure that it'd take a few hundred people all with ungrouped mods to even affect the dilation of that node at all, probably closer to nothing, and if there's 300+ people in the system attacking a logofski super I don't think you'll need 30 minutes in the first place.

Mmm, I love the smell of pod goo in the morning.

Nova Orion
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-01 15:37:54 UTC
Phantom Slave wrote:
Kagan Storm wrote:
Is it just me or is this scenario possible Somebody test it and feal free to give me the credit :)

Super loogs in. You catch it. It loogs off agreesed.... you dialate time by ungrooping everithing and launching all drones....t ime goes slower for system X lets say 1 sec real time equals 0.5 seconds in game

=========

Now you have 30 min to get reinforsments to kill that super??????????????????

From what i understand everybody in system slows down.
Please confirm. Cool


And usual reason you dont kil la super is cause reinforsments are slow and you dont have enough DPS


Pretty sure that it'd take a few hundred people all with ungrouped mods to even affect the dilation of that node at all, probably closer to nothing, and if there's 300+ people in the system attacking a logofski super I don't think you'll need 30 minutes in the first place.


He does have a valid point though, it will start depending on ppl finding out how to overload the node, like taking drone boats, bringing a lot of warriors for instance, and just launch and abandon. At some point someone will find a way to do that, and they will have a huge advantage when it comes to reinforcements.

Also you can look at it otherwise as well, let's say you field 300v300. Normally the fight would be over before 100s more would come. But now you have maybe 10 times as much time to make it in time (with TiDi 10%) which will further increase the lag. I do believe TiDi can fix a lot of issues, I just hope CCP thinks of everything before enrolling it =)

/Nova
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#8 - 2011-10-01 18:34:22 UTC
Lord Helghast wrote:
If you can actually pause eve now for a system... Can't you theoretically use that time if the dilation gets to that point to remap the node to a reinforced node.


You'd have to forcibly disconnect and reconnect the clients to pull that off, which is...pretty impossible.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

Sleekman
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-10-01 19:41:20 UTC
From inside the masstest, it looks like time dilation may affect more than just the system. It may be node wide. This would help, as reinforcements would take longer to arrive if they have to come through the node.

However, sets up whole other problems (figuring out the node and exploiting an edge)
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#10 - 2011-10-01 21:03:01 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Habakuk
Hey, just a few comments from my side:

Using TiDi to pause to system to make it easier to remap it: This was already discussed internally and sounds like a good plan, BUT a lot of other stuff has to happen first. One step for better remaps will be probably done in one of the next mass-tests, where we'll test a fix to make the remapping system more stable.

Abusing TiDi to prolong aggression timers: As far as I can tell this *might* be possible, but if you already have the numbers to be able to lag out the system as much, then you should also have the numbers to kill the super-capital without having to extend the timer. I know that this is not always the case, but this is another discussion...

TiDi affects all system on one node (at least in the current implementation). Neighboring systems have a higher chance of being on the same node, but there is no guarantee.

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-10-01 21:07:07 UTC
Forgive me if this is a really dumb question that's been asked before, but I don't know anything but the barebones basics about how the node system works. What are the chances of me, a chronic hi-sec dweller, suddenly getting TiDied because of a battle taking place 80 jumps away in zerospace? Would this ever happen, or does the node system simply not work that way?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#12 - 2011-10-01 21:13:08 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Forgive me if this is a really dumb question that's been asked before, but I don't know anything but the barebones basics about how the node system works. What are the chances of me, a chronic hi-sec dweller, suddenly getting TiDied because of a battle taking place 80 jumps away in zerospace? Would this ever happen, or does the node system simply not work that way?



O.O/ Low sec/ High- sec/ WH systems are only cross populated in very rare casesTwisted A CCP Dev will chime in here in a minute and say Company policy is that the four differant zones are never mixed when deligating which node runs which systems

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Zirse
Risktech Analytics
#13 - 2011-10-01 21:58:12 UTC
I think you should turn off dilation for highsec systems.

Otherwise you just know that sooner or later we'll be there dilating the **** out of high-density mining nodes for fun. Pirate
Xynthiar
OnlyFleets.
#14 - 2011-10-01 22:05:35 UTC
Zirse wrote:
I think you should turn off dilation for highsec systems.

Otherwise you just know that sooner or later we'll be there dilating the **** out of high-density mining nodes for fun. Pirate

You/Your alliance is willing to keep 200 pilots in a system shooting at asteroids just to slow down a system for the duration of the shooting? =/
Zirse
Risktech Analytics
#15 - 2011-10-01 22:34:03 UTC
Quite so. Lol

It would have to at least be 1.5x more fun that a POS shots.
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#16 - 2011-10-01 22:47:14 UTC
Andreus Ixiris: It is very seldom, that high-sec and 0.0 systems are on the same node (but it can happen), as Salpun already wrote. On the other hand it happens quite often, that high-sec and low-sec systems are on the same node.

Zirse wrote:
I think you should turn off dilation for highsec systems.

Otherwise you just know that sooner or later we'll be there dilating the **** out of high-density mining nodes for fun. Pirate


I think it would be bad to turn off dilation for high-sec - it is also better for high-sec to be dilated than to be totally lagged out.

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing

Kagan Storm
Doomheim
#17 - 2011-10-01 22:48:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagan Storm
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Hey, just a few comments from my side:

Using TiDi to pause to system to make it easier to remap it: This was already discussed internally and sounds like a good plan, BUT a lot of other stuff has to happen first. One step for better remaps will be probably done in one of the next mass-tests, where we'll test a fix to make the remapping system more stable.


I support your plan.... Its a great idea to slow time if to many people so those closer to server or top noch connection have an edge BUT...

CCP Habakuk wrote:
Hey, just a few comments from my side:
Abusing TiDi to prolong aggression timers: As far as I can tell this *might* be possible, but if you already have the numbers to be able to lag out the system as much, then you should also have the numbers to kill the super-capital without having to extend the timer. I know that this is not always the case, but this is another discussion...


I do not agree with you there. Im probably not the 1st person to have this idea and im quite sure some alliance leader will order mass laging tests to see what is exsactly needed to lag a system.


On other constructiv uses of this:

1. Besides getting more people in to kill tee super cap
2. Having MORE time to spring a trap, anchor bubbles.. especialy drag bubbles so you have enemy fleat pointed in 1 spot while you deploy all around
3. Getting cyno alts in position for whatever you need them.
4. Maybe the stupidest use but still a use..... PROLONGING stront timers on poses and stations.

When you get actual numbers how much abuse is needed to slow down time to 50%, Go on Dotland and find out how many alliances have the actual "accountpower" to do that.

In eve 95% of things is a matter of seconds. I ususaly survive entanglements cause im pointed and aligned to something nad when enemy feat jumps trough i have that 1 second extra to warp away... whiles they lag a few sec since 200 of them jumped trough 1 gate.... Trying to overwhelm 1 person.... Score for the small guy Cool Just for Stupid info:

It all works fine in theory but eve is not a thinking game..... Its like I and my enemy are running. And my enemy throws a brick in my face. I pick up my phone..... call somebody who throws rocks in his path so he cannot run fast any more.... till i recooperate and have time to catch up to him. Cause thats what TD does... lets people who loose cause lag to catch up to other people who are winning.

I am sorry to report this but time dilation has a logical error. It assumes nobody new enters the system or affects that system, region or the activity that caused time to slow down in any way

Think out side of the sandbox.... Thats how people win....

My ego is the the size of my carriers jump range.

CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#18 - 2011-10-01 23:23:22 UTC
It is totally clear, that some alliances will try to (ab-)use Time Dilation for their purposes and sure - in some cases they will succeed to do so. BUT: most cases are also somehow possible with the current system by lagging out a system, just not as predictable.

We will for sure keep a very close eye on this and react to any problems. If anybody has any other ideas on how alliances might try to abuse it, but doesn't want to write it into this thread: feel free to send me mails about it (to this character either on TQ or Sisi).

Kagan Storm wrote:

4. Maybe the stupidest use but still a use..... PROLONGING stront timers on poses and stations.

Reinforcement timers are NOT being affected by time dilation.

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing

Mikel Laurentson
Laurentson INC
#19 - 2011-10-01 23:36:55 UTC
I wonder what the implications would be for the age old "dump a freighterload of shuttles and smartbomb them to crash Jita" trick.

Presumably it would just cause that one second of smartbombing to last a while, possibly a long while, then return things to normal with no major disruption.
Kagan Storm
Doomheim
#20 - 2011-10-02 00:41:18 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:

Reinforcement timers are NOT being affected by time dilation.


I dont like it... im sure ill figure out some abuse for this in a few hours will get back to this....


Mikel Laurentson wrote:
I wonder what the implications would be for the age old "dump a freighterload of shuttles and smartbomb them to crash Jita" trick.

Presumably it would just cause that one second of smartbombing to last a while, possibly a long while, then return things to normal with no major disruption.



Sorry i only focused on 0.0

For highsec

1. ) increase in suicide ganking

Little explanation biggest problem you have with scanning somebody is the time to move you mouse. people will be able to aquier targets easily (not 100 % acure needs to be tested)

2.) increase in cost to transport cause freighter currently needs 4 min to leave jita or something like that with the assumes 0.5/1 second change it will take him 8 minutes..... More freighters cause of lucrative market... easier to cause lag.

3. Dont even wanna theorize on bonus time for deployment of interceptors to decloak person on gate..... currently only reason you cant do that is cause you have 5 seconds to decloak a hauler.... with 10 seconds you can do something...


All in all i have a fealing "slower in perception on time to react to stuff" people are getting a boost witch is ok.....

But seriously.... cant you just invest time in adding nodes?



Im also worried about less interesting things.... like mission running and mining.... money making that is directly keyed to REAL time.

Workable theory here:
Theory 1.)
I mine. Mining yeald/circle time X 3600 = my profit of mining /hour..... if you slow down time... i acttualy make less money. No problem im in highsec my differences is about 1 mill /hour.

Theory 2.)
Im mining in an ops in 0.0 OOPS..... instead of making 60-70 mill per hour im now down to 30 if system slows down cause 10 of us are using mining drones and all and we have 30 more people dooing stuff and in the procces fleat starts to form for a cta or something...


Time dilation if abused effects everything in game.... mining, missionruning, transport, Killing each other.....


"the system" had 10 years to evolve and all the ship changes, align times travel speed, ability to run form other people.... its all messured in seconds. You are ading a new number to math thats been evolving for 10 years.


P.S. Dont make me count the number of drakes in that video Evil .... on rough glanc it looks like 70 or so to me.... realy not that complicated to organize people....

P.P.S: i support the idea it will make the game less lagi, smoother, nicer, less a pain, less DCs in fights.... but the outside factors are worrying me.....

My ego is the the size of my carriers jump range.

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