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Proposal to Restart the New Eden Racing League. EVETV Coverage confirmed.
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#41 - 2012-05-03 11:02:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:

1) There is nothing in the league that forces small teams to remain small, instead of allying with each other. Again, being too small to effectively co-operate was your choice (and mine, but still, a choice). Co-operation has always been a part of the league - e.g. using team-mates as warp-in to cover for botches was pretty much essential.
2) Again, I do not think the league died to the call the organizer made. People were willing to continue racing after it, after all. It is not like there were a major pilot walk-out or anything. It died to the organizer quitting, in my understanding due to the drama and complaints of "totally destroying the spirit" being the reward they got for the hard work they put into the league. I think that was a shame - but generally, judging from the drama I saw and still see, quite deserved.


1) It was specifically the organizers and sponsors that wanted to see more teams emerging. If the goal was to see them being ingested by phagocytosis from bigger teams afterwards, well, it does not make a lot of sense. In any case, a lot of facts and doctrines in that league continuously hampered the formation of small teams or freelances.

2) People were willing to continue racing with different rules, and nobody seemed to agree with each other. Of course, I do not know a lot more than that... I mostly watched the various reactions.

Graelyn wrote:
Anyhow, it sounds like the general tone in here is "We should have something nice, as long as someone else will do the hard work that it requires."


I find the concept of racing interesting and was ready to organize a new one. At least, a part of it. I am terrible at finding sponsors and all the trade arrangements that have to be made. I do not really care if I am part of a race or not.

But I guess nobody proved really interested, or maybe I was just terrible at motivating people. Or the last drama was maybe too recent for people to really get invested in something else.

I also thought of subwarp racing which solves a lot of issues, but seeing the explanatory videos shown above, I have to admit that I do not find it really interesting, extremely simplistic, and very hazardous.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#42 - 2012-05-03 14:40:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Lyn Farel wrote:
I find the concept of racing interesting and was ready to organize a new one. At least, a part of it. I am terrible at finding sponsors and all the trade arrangements that have to be made. I do not really care if I am part of a race or not.

But I guess nobody proved really interested, or maybe I was just terrible at motivating people.

If you are interested in doing it, just do it. When the league started originally, there were no fancy sponsors and prizes and trade arrangements and stuff. You do not need them. People do not race for the prizes; they race for the fun of it. All you need is to be willing to do the work. ISK you do not need.

(Edited to add: If the cost of the actual waypoint containers is prohibitive to you, I'll donate them.)
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#43 - 2012-05-03 16:12:06 UTC
Setting up something with basically no enthusiasm or feedbacks is usually hardly worth it, especially when I asked Ms Gyra Rho last time if I could do anything to make it continue. But as I said this was back last year in another context.

If you tell me that it is really worth it, then I will start to think again about it.

NB : Containers prices are not an issue at all, and they can be re-used.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#44 - 2012-05-03 16:14:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Why do you need me to tell you if it is worth it? It's a lot of work, but racers would appreciate. If you do something racers do not like - and eventually you will - you will get some drama. When races run smoothly, you get a lot of glory. How can I decide how you should weigh those against each other?

Obviously Gyra did not think it was worth it for her, since she quit. Obviously I do not think it is worth it for me, or I'd be doing it myself.

What the hell does that have to do with whether it is worth it for you? That's something you have to decide for yourself.
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#45 - 2012-05-03 16:51:59 UTC
Woo, I wish I had not opened that can of worms, as it took the thread a bit off-topic, but thanks for the explanations regardless.
Lyn Farel wrote:
I also thought of subwarp racing which solves a lot of issues, but seeing the explanatory videos shown above, I have to admit that I do not find it really interesting, extremely simplistic, and very hazardous.

Each his/her opinion, but I suggest you try one first. Sure, the concept is luckily very simple, but trying to succesfully maneuver through a hairpin with as much speed as possible is quite a challenge. And I don't really see how it is very hazardous. One of the reasons I did not compete in the NERA was that I did not want to risk the lives of my crew, which seems more of a risk on the low-sec races of the NERA than the hi-sec races of the SRV.

Of course, those in military occupations will probably not find the races as exciting as your usual line of work, but for peaceful industrialists like me it is quite the adrenaline rush.

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Saikoyu
Rho Dynamics
#46 - 2012-05-03 18:14:08 UTC
I believe I have read enough of this.

For the record, I was one of the pilots that used the tactic Lyn and other have talked about. I was not happy when it was declared un-usable, and I probably contributed to the "drama" that ended the league. Not that it needed much help. At one point I did care about that, but I find that I do not any more.

Sory to steal a jump on you Lyn, and you Benilopax, but I will be re-starting the league. Gyra is free to contact me at any time is she does not wish me to use the NERA name, but I will be following the same general format, racing between waypoints placed in different low sec systems. If some covert ops pilots wish to join me, I might even film it.

Unfortunately, I will be planet bound on and off over the next several months, so the league will not be restarting soon. At the moment, I believe I will be ready to start in late July. Until then, I bid you fair well and stop diverting this thread. Please start another if you wish to discuss this further. I will be watching.

Siakoyu Eblis-Kad
Norrin Ellis
Doomheim
#47 - 2012-05-03 19:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Norrin Ellis
Lyn Farel wrote:

Wrong. Several teams were made up of one or two people only. It was physically impossible for such small teams to scout an entire region in the time between the setup of the track and the race itself. It was not even a matter of choosing for them.


On the three occasions that I scouted the track, the first time I had assistance from two pilots. The other two times, I did it entirely alone.

Furthermore, a rational person would conclude that the smaller teams or independent pilots have a greater incentive to put in the time required to offset their disadvantages against larger teams.

Your major premise is demonstrably false.

CEO, Venture Racing

Manager, EVE Online Hold'Em
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#48 - 2012-05-04 12:52:10 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Why do you need me to tell you if it is worth it? It's a lot of work, but racers would appreciate. If you do something racers do not like - and eventually you will - you will get some drama. When races run smoothly, you get a lot of glory. How can I decide how you should weigh those against each other?

Obviously Gyra did not think it was worth it for her, since she quit. Obviously I do not think it is worth it for me, or I'd be doing it myself.

What the hell does that have to do with whether it is worth it for you? That's something you have to decide for yourself.


Sure thing. You have my thanks for your advices.

Che Biko wrote:

Each his/her opinion, but I suggest you try one first. Sure, the concept is luckily very simple, but trying to succesfully maneuver through a hairpin with as much speed as possible is quite a challenge. And I don't really see how it is very hazardous. One of the reasons I did not compete in the NERA was that I did not want to risk the lives of my crew, which seems more of a risk on the low-sec races of the NERA than the hi-sec races of the SRV.

Of course, those in military occupations will probably not find the races as exciting as your usual line of work, but for peaceful industrialists like me it is quite the adrenaline rush.


A single video is definitly not exhaustive and if you have other materials to offer I would really like to see them. Maybe if I find the time to try it myself, I will, too. Do not hesitate to make me know when you have a track at your disposal, or whatever.

What I found hazardous was not the system in itself, but more how to know if a racer has passed every waypoint correctly, especially if they all race together. I believe it has to be quite intensive for all your judges/observers.

Saikoyu wrote:

Sory to steal a jump on you Lyn, and you Benilopax, but I will be re-starting the league.


There is nothing to steal. The more different proposal racers have, the more they will pick what they think is best for their tastes and the least outrages.

Norrin Ellis wrote:


On the three occasions that I scouted the track, the first time I had assistance from two pilots. The other two times, I did it entirely alone.


Good for you. It may be physically possible for you, but not for me, at least. My apologies if I tend to forget that I tend to lack of stamina.

Norrin Ellis wrote:
Furthermore, a rational person would conclude that the smaller teams or independent pilots have a greater incentive to put in the time required to offset their disadvantages against larger teams.

Your major premise is demonstrably false.


Fortunately, you do not sound like a rational person.
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#49 - 2012-05-04 16:21:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Biko
Lyn Farel wrote:
A single video is definitly not exhaustive and if you have other materials to offer I would really like to see them. Maybe if I find the time to try it myself, I will, too. Do not hesitate to make me know when you have a track at your disposal, or whatever.

What I found hazardous was not the system in itself, but more how to know if a racer has passed every waypoint correctly, especially if they all race together. I believe it has to be quite intensive for all your judges/observers.

Well, the channel the linked video is in should contain some races like this one. This one is mostly just between me and Kabel, as the other racers were rookies, so feel free to skip to the next round video after we are done Lol. This track has a loop.

Well, it can be challenging for the judges, but even with 10+ participants in a race it is doable for the most part (with enough judges), and it may happen that you get a penalty for cutting when in fact you were not, but if you are that close, than it is just a risk you take. There was someone not agreeing with a decision sometimes, but nothing resulting in problematic drama. We never considered using stuff like replays if there was doubt.

I'll try to remember to fill you in if I find out there is a track somewhere.

Edit: P.S. Send me a mail as a reminder, to improve the chances of me remembering.

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Benilopax
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-05-10 00:43:44 UTC
Just to update you all on the Racing League, I have secured EVETV coverage for the event. It will not be a live broadcast as discussed before but footage will be put together to be played during the finals of the alliance tournament.

I have decided that sub-warp racing will be my preferred format as it's much easier to cover visually.

However I read that others now wish to start a racing league, with different formats, I would strongly urge that we try to work together to build a stronger racing league that can supply all tastes.

...
Benilopax
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-05-10 00:47:59 UTC
Niraia wrote:
Hi Benilopax,

Lyn Farel wrote:
I find it interesting. I however still have doubts on what will be done to prevent the unfortunate last events that basically lead the NERA to its end ?


Unless this can be adequately addressed, there's no reason to proceed. I'm also not sure why a self-proclaimed "fat and rich" mogul should be seeking donations at this early stage.

However, if you can work it out, it'd be nice to talk sometime. I'd personally enjoy watching the races, too.



I'm planning to sink a lot of my isk into this endeavour but I'm always willing to add money to the prize fund from other sources so that we can have several prizes for ship classes team awards etc etc

...
Benilopax
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-05-10 00:51:06 UTC
Saikoyu wrote:
I believe I have read enough of this.

For the record, I was one of the pilots that used the tactic Lyn and other have talked about. I was not happy when it was declared un-usable, and I probably contributed to the "drama" that ended the league. Not that it needed much help. At one point I did care about that, but I find that I do not any more.

Sory to steal a jump on you Lyn, and you Benilopax, but I will be re-starting the league. Gyra is free to contact me at any time is she does not wish me to use the NERA name, but I will be following the same general format, racing between waypoints placed in different low sec systems. If some covert ops pilots wish to join me, I might even film it.

Unfortunately, I will be planet bound on and off over the next several months, so the league will not be restarting soon. At the moment, I believe I will be ready to start in late July. Until then, I bid you fair well and stop diverting this thread. Please start another if you wish to discuss this further. I will be watching.


Well seeing as organisation for my sub warp race event has already begun (see above) and you plan to start warp races at around the same time, can we not work together to create a broad spectrum of racing events under the same banner?

You know, because it would be fun?

...
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#53 - 2012-05-10 01:06:20 UTC
Benilopax wrote:
Greetings fellow speed enthusiasts!

As you may know there was once a series of races held across the galaxy that brought in billions of isk in prize money. Sadly the races stopped and there was an abortive attempt to re-ignite the concept of pitting pilots against each other on the track rather than in the arena.

I personally held a few race meetings independently of the regular season which were popular events. I have since become fat and rich and like any good mogul I wish to sink my hard earned isk into prize money to attempt to relaunch the racing season once more.

My proposal is as follows, if I can secure the support of racing teams, pilots, sponsors, and stewards I will hold a racing meet during the Alliance tournament with an initial prize fund of 5 Billion isk, not as a season grand prize but just for the race itself, I want to make the fatest pilots rich men and I would like donations to be made to the prize fund to be held by a trustworthy third party (Chribba) so that we can get a prize fund in excess of 10 billion.

I would like commentary, I would like EVE radio coverage, I would like EVETV coverage, but I can only do this if there are racers, staff and of course fans willing to bet on the outcome so that we can sell this event as one worthy of merit.

I will gladly accept help and support and pledges to get this sport back onto the space-lanes!

What say you New Eden?

Benilopax


If you need someone to commentate, I can connect you with a few people.

((OOC: I can provide editing services if you have video available, including commentary and stuff.))

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Benilopax
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-05-10 01:09:51 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Benilopax wrote:
Greetings fellow speed enthusiasts!

As you may know there was once a series of races held across the galaxy that brought in billions of isk in prize money. Sadly the races stopped and there was an abortive attempt to re-ignite the concept of pitting pilots against each other on the track rather than in the arena.

I personally held a few race meetings independently of the regular season which were popular events. I have since become fat and rich and like any good mogul I wish to sink my hard earned isk into prize money to attempt to relaunch the racing season once more.

My proposal is as follows, if I can secure the support of racing teams, pilots, sponsors, and stewards I will hold a racing meet during the Alliance tournament with an initial prize fund of 5 Billion isk, not as a season grand prize but just for the race itself, I want to make the fatest pilots rich men and I would like donations to be made to the prize fund to be held by a trustworthy third party (Chribba) so that we can get a prize fund in excess of 10 billion.

I would like commentary, I would like EVE radio coverage, I would like EVETV coverage, but I can only do this if there are racers, staff and of course fans willing to bet on the outcome so that we can sell this event as one worthy of merit.

I will gladly accept help and support and pledges to get this sport back onto the space-lanes!

What say you New Eden?

Benilopax


If you need someone to commentate, I can connect you with a few people.

((OOC: I can provide editing services if you have video available, including commentary and stuff.))



That's the most positive response so far! Thank you!

...
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#55 - 2012-05-10 01:22:15 UTC
ShockedThis is awesome!Big smileP In fact, it's so awesome I almost can't believe it. You better be not be pranking us, Benilopax!Twisted
Darn, now I will have to check my implants, get back in my pod and try to reassemble the team. Haha, who am I kidding, I'll do it gladly for this.

giddygiddy wooohooo!Cool

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-05-10 02:03:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Silas Vitalia
This has gotten interesting. Sub Warp provides just the sort of visual excitement for spectators and the right possibilities for live commentary. This should merge well with the standard Alliance Tournament viewers.

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#57 - 2012-05-11 03:35:52 UTC
Benilopax
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-05-14 11:45:55 UTC
Have created a channel and mailing list called "New Eden Racing" please join for more information and discussions.

...
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#59 - 2012-05-18 21:37:58 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Do not hesitate to make me know when you have a track at your disposal, or whatever.



Caldari state has kindly authorized Xeltec services to build a track in Ikao. The current license is valid for another 25 days.

Send me a mail for Instructions on how to get to the track.

Jill Xelitras

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
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