Assembly Hall

Can't agree with you more in this case Floppie. Its insane that it costs more to dec a larger corp than it does a small corp.

If you ask me the charge should be based on the size difference of the corps.

Small attacker - Large deffender = small cost
Even sized corps = meduim cost
Large attacker - small defender = large cost.

If it was possible I would also factor in the corps total SPs, so a group of vets would have to pay more to dec a bunch of noobs.

Support x3.

This would make each and every war a war of attrition. Understanding that fighting a mobile force that melts into the surrounding area is frustrating, it's a strategy that's as old as the hills both in eve and in real life and is basically the only way for a smaller force to bring pressure on a bigger force.

Do you really want even highsec to become strictly blob warfare?

It's not about the cost at all. The distribution of the cost is part of a larger problem which leads to an environment where small, noob-ish corps are brutally punished for not being in the know, while the big alliances are virtually invulnerable.

I'm all for raising the cost of a wardec. It should be substantial enough that griefers aren't content to spend $x to sit at a station for a week, waiting until their wartarget finally undocks in a T1 cruiser. 50-100 million would be a good starting point.

I think the current figures being tossed around is 50m base plus 500k per member. So it costs 60m to wardec a 20-member corp, 300m to wardec a 500-member corp, and 5 billion to wardec a 10,000-member alliance.

Conversely, that 10,000-member alliance can wardec the 20-member corp for....60 million isk.

Do you see where the disparity is? The proposed system completely favors large organizations, while making smaller ones even more vulnerable than they are today. Nearly all of the increased cost of wardecs is going into protecting alliances at the expense of small corps. That's what I mean by the distribution of wardec costs.

I agree that cash is very available, though I can't say that I consider a billion to be "easy money". There are some people out there who could permadec goonswarm forever, and there are some for whom a billion isk still seems like an outrageous sum of money.

And yes, wardecs do devolve into station game stupidity all too often. I'd love to see that fixed.

So you are saying that the are considering a linear cost formula along the line of ...

War-Dec Cost = 50m + 0.5m * members ?

Why not something more non-linear with decreasing additional cost per next member? Lets say e.g. to pick a more or less random number ...

War-Dec Cost = 50m + 0.5m * (members) squared 0.9

That would give about

• 55m for 20 members
• 195m for 500 members
• 2,040m for 10.000 members

So the increase isn't that steep. Of course you can play around with the "number" (unsure about the English term for such a root expression) ... the lower the less impact an additional member has and with one being the linear case of Gizznitts example.

EDIT: Something like this even makes sense from an economic utility perspective. If I go from five targets I can shot at to six, I get way more fun out of this one "Mr.6" guy as if I can already shot half the galaxy and in that case am presented with one more target.

EDIT times 2: Thinking about it for a bit, I'm of the opinion that their should be another part in the formula that adjusts the costs also based on the number of members in the corporation declaring the war. The more members you got that more costly it should be. It just sounds wrong, if 20 guys wanting to declare war on a company of e.g. another 20 guys should have to pay the same as 2,000 guys. For the twenty guys its (maybe) a though decision with regard to their resources, for the 2,000 guys it's - to quote some bankers facing billions in losses - "peanuts". So you would have something like:

War-Dec Cost = fixed amount + a * (members aggressor) squared (something smaller 1) + b * (members defendent) squared (something smaller 1)

That would be one of the things that keeps me on the fence.

Right now pretty much anyone no matter how big or how small can war dec anyone.

The change now requires you to be serious about it...and not #### around.

Which most war decs are just stupid ####ing around for lol's.

Not anyone I know. Almost everyone sees something wrong with the proposed changes. This thread was dedicated to a discussion of what would constitute GOOD changes. I'd suggest looking through that and browsing C&P, W&T, and GD forums for more current discussions to get an idea of what people want.

I agree the war dec system has been abused far too much in recent years.
Too many corps and alliance easily able to doge them by joining or leaving an alliance or character avoiding them by joining or leaving a corp.

EvE University being a primary example for some, others being the 1 man corp who war decs a bunch of guys from the same corp mining in a belt and wont let the guy salvage. So he sits nearby and waits till he sees them all log on and positions his guys in the system on an off grid from the belt and has them all apply to his corp and accepts them all and they warp in and kill the guys.

Usage of the system in this manner is what needs to be stopped.

I have many ideas on how this type of thing can be stopped but it is not the main issue atm.

The main issue is how CCP is going to lose alot of money in this change. CCP has always been a bottom line kind of business when it comes to Eve.

CCP ask yourself these very important questions.
When a new player joins eve and finally decides to join a corporation is he going to still be able to join a small group of friends to play the game he wants to play?
Or is he going to have to spend a whole lot of money on GTC's to hire mercs, who are probably working in conjunction with the griefers to extort the money, who may even betray his corp?
Or is he and his friends corp going to have to goto 0.0 space and join an alliance that will grind him and his friends until they no longer have a use for him?
How long do you think it will be before this fresh new player finds out he cannot play the kind of game he wants to play and stops paying for his sub?

Now onto the meat and potatoes of this proposed change.
It has already been said multiple times that this new system favors the strong and ignores the weak.
The community of Eve is not really paying close attention to this war dec system proposal because if they were I would be replying on the 300th page or so of this thread already.

So people stand up and take notice of what CCP proposes:
To allow the largest entities in this game to freely move about with no fear or risk in empire and ruin you!
Some say the The Great Mutton Head engineered this while he was in the CSM.
To be able to freely move the necc war goods and his Cartels tech to and from empire with no risk.
The largest entities in this game will also take the markets away from you.
How? Simple really when a large alliance is able to move massive amounts of goods they chose into a system such as Jita, you will not be able to undercut them from the sheer volume they will be able to drop on the markets.
So when you see the train of freighters coming into Jita from goon, razor, and other tech farmers, you wont be able to war dec them because it will cost you and your handful of guys 4+ bil to war dec them to keep them from harming your bottom line.

For people to sit here and reply to this thread with the idea that "It should cost them more because we offer them more targets" is absolutely idiotic. A war dec regardless of cost means nothing to them, but what means everything to them is they are part of such a large alliance that the avg corp cant harm them in empire and they can move freely without any danger.

I am a nullsec player and I will say this to the empire dwellers. Don't let this change happen because if you do you will regret it more than any change CCP has ever made.

Large alliances have already shown they can control Jita by force, what happens when they can do it legally?

If I were a major nullsec alliance leader i would war dec the largest industrial empire people and put a 20 man camp on the undock of Jita 4-4 and crush your bottom line and make the rest of eve buy my product instead o