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Better tank for the Industrial ships?
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Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc
#21 - 2012-05-03 05:45:11 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
It is true that the real problem is the T2 Barges.
Just adding more Shield, Armor and Hull hit points could be an enough solution. It would only change the time needed to destroy them without any other option.
Or perharps adding a med slot and enough CPU/Powergrid to fit a large shield extender... This option could though open other options that are unpredictable.


Exactly. It's entirely too easy to gank the T2 Exhumers as it is, especially thanks to the Hybrid buff. CCP has done a great job making high sec ganking into a childs game.

Let's give them some defense not immunity. NEVER make high sec 100% safe, for anyone. But at least make it a challenge again. Make a gank mean something.
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#22 - 2012-05-03 05:47:39 UTC
I'm still advocating the Rock mining Rokh

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc
#23 - 2012-05-03 05:48:31 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
I am surprised to have only one answer.


Maybe a lot of folks thought it was some sort of Troll since you are with GSF. It's refreshing to see a Goon ally who isn't foaming at the mouth to be able to torch T2 Exhumers with a noob ship.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-05-03 06:12:21 UTC
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
I'm still advocating the Rock mining Rokh

ALL GLORY TO THE MINING ROKH!!
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#25 - 2012-05-03 06:18:31 UTC
Brom MkLeith wrote:
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
I am surprised to have only one answer.


Maybe a lot of folks thought it was some sort of Troll since you are with GSF. It's refreshing to see a Goon ally who isn't foaming at the mouth to be able to torch T2 Exhumers with a noob ship.



We love Hulkageddon! But if it is too easy where is the challenge?

Even with 40.000 EHP Goons will destroy Hulks.

My goal is to make this game more interestening for all of us.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-05-03 06:32:13 UTC
Said it many times

1. Guys ganking with destroyers are pansy players when it comes to risk taking. They are losing nothing (destroyers round closer to zero for a loss) while 99% chance of success that when a hulk explodes (several hundred million) they will end up with a module or two that covers the cost and the T2 salvage if any is just the icing on the cake. Let me point out...these dudes (the gankers) do not lose expensive ships...is that not risk adversion? Roll Hypocripsy - Its ok if the other guy loses it, so long as its not me. Really wish that skillpoint loss in T3 ships was applied to all ships when they blow up...really ******* hurt when you lose something you cannot replace Blink

2. Get rid of the ******* hulk. Hell, get rid of every ******* mining vessel, mining bonus, asteroid belt, ice belt, grav site, gas cloud and reprocessing of mineral loot. Its a waste of time to train for a broken ship by design (fit MLU, increase CPU but gank mods for T2 combat ships don't increase CPU except when you add rigs). All you do is make yourself a ******* target to dudes who will tell you to fit a tank, these same dudes who usually inhabit the likes of nullsec who will not fly a ******* ship with a sufficient tank to counter a Titan XL gun (hint: you are no different when it comes to a hulk fitting a tank, move up from a battleship and get into a cap ship that can tank) so they whine to CCP to nerf them but they won't let you whine to CCP to buff the hulk. But its ok, we don't need this broke ass bitchwhining inducing profession...just seed the minerals from NPC at incredible soul crushing prices(10k per trit sound goodTwisted )

3. No insurance, no loot, no salvage from mining vessels. And additional full value at market cost is charged to the miner instead of an insurance payment, to keep them from hopping back into those broke ass ships. Problem ******* solved. Gankers get nothing, miners lose more, no body wants to mine, gankers have no targets. Win ******* win

All true, last two are the best suggestions to solve the problem from the ground up. Nothing to cause the problem since no one will want to do it anymore, gankers find someone else to harrass where they may actually lose something of value.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#27 - 2012-05-03 06:49:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Cardano Firesnake
We are here to find a way make mining barges playable.
Not to say to everybody to not to fly mining barges.

It is true though that I do no more use mining barge because I do not like to be the target, and because mining is a bit boring.
But it is another story.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#28 - 2012-05-03 07:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
I would be fine buffing industrial ships tanks if you were willing to accept a considerable cargo hold / mining yield penalty for being in an NPC corp.

Suicide ganking and war decs are the only two valid tactics for attacking both types of ships in high sec, one is ridiculously easy to avoid. The other is, well, its still pretty easy to avoid.

What some people seem to want is to invalidate both methods of attack, whilst not receiving any penalty themselves. I might even be fine with that, if you are willing to accept high sec being nerfed so far into the ground that the only people to whom it is genuinely worth mining/care bearing there are genuine new players.

Currently high sec is used by risk averse older players who simply wish to avoid actually playing the game at any cost, you wish to take part in building ships yet are not willing to lose them and contribute to demand yourselves. You wish to supply low end minerals and modules for large corporations and alliances, but will not join them or seek their protection in leaving high sec.

Quite simply you are what is wrong with Eve. This kind of mentality is the reason mudflation almost always occurs within care bear friendly games, and you need to start dying more often.

Anyway, HTFU and get used to it, because judging from recent interviews and dev blogs it looks like CCP agree with me.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#29 - 2012-05-03 07:38:35 UTC
Aqriue wrote:

... some angry crap...


You're not solving anything. You're breaking the game. Making mining a profession that is completely pointless is game breaking. Seeding minerals at ludicrous prices is game breaking inflation wise as nearly everything that is made and bought uses minerals. New players won't be able to buy anything. as incomes wouldn't rise with the insane inflation you're suggesting is introduced.

Instead of rage-suggesting destroying the game how about you merely do what everyone else who's playing it fine has done and work within the parameters of the game but around the problem.

There are those of us who mine perfectly happily. We know that we're going to lose ships so just mitigate as many of the potential loss scenarios as we can which ends up making it a net gain.

All the suggestions have already been made but just to sum up: mine in WH or nullsec with protection from a corp or alliance. Mining in high sec is a very dangerous profession at the moment.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#30 - 2012-05-03 07:50:20 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
I would be fine buffing industrial ships tanks if you were willing to accept a considerable cargo hold / mining yield penalty for being in an NPC corp.

Suicide ganking and war decs are the only two valid tactics for attacking both types of ships in high sec, one is ridiculously easy to avoid. The other is, well, its still pretty easy to avoid.

What some people seem to want is to invalidate both methods of attack, whilst not receiving any penalty themselves. I might even be fine with that, if you are willing to accept high sec being nerfed so far into the ground that the only people to whom it is genuinely worth mining/care bearing there are genuine new players.

Currently high sec is used by risk averse older players who simply wish to avoid actually playing the game at any cost, you wish to take part in building ships yet are not willing to lose them and contribute to demand yourselves. You wish to supply low end minerals and modules for large corporations and alliances, but will not join them or seek their protection in leaving high sec.

Quite simply you are what is wrong with Eve. This kind of mentality is the reason mudflation almost always occurs within care bear friendly games, and you need to start dying more often.

Anyway, HTFU and get used to it, because judging from recent interviews and dev blogs it looks like CCP agree with me.


NPC corpo should take a percentage on all what you sell.
The other problem is Ghost Corpos of 1 to 3 characters...
I already post about this problem. But the solution is complex.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Hortense Sledgemallet
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-05-03 12:00:49 UTC
Brom MkLeith wrote:
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
It is true that the real problem is the T2 Barges.
Just adding more Shield, Armor and Hull hit points could be an enough solution. It would only change the time needed to destroy them without any other option.
Or perharps adding a med slot and enough CPU/Powergrid to fit a large shield extender... This option could though open other options that are unpredictable.


Exactly. It's entirely too easy to gank the T2 Exhumers as it is, especially thanks to the Hybrid buff. CCP has done a great job making high sec ganking into a childs game.

Let's give them some defense not immunity. NEVER make high sec 100% safe, for anyone. But at least make it a challenge again. Make a gank mean something.



Exactly!
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#32 - 2012-05-03 13:13:00 UTC
Yeah, all the industrial ships should have a lot of structure. Maybe less armor and shield than they do now, but more raw HP than now from structure.

The ones designated as "tanky" should either have resists or a bonus to hull repper speed :)

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#33 - 2012-05-03 16:14:53 UTC
Ahh, this ****thread again.

No, you will not get a better tank for Industrial ships. Why? Because they are INDUSTRIAL ships. They are designed to have enough tank to fend of belt rats, not fend off ships designed for combat operations.

So you saying a destroyer-class hull, or a battlecruiser-class hull shouldn't be able to gank your Hulk is downright absurd.

If you don't want to be ganked while mining, I have a solution for you. Stop mining.

If that isn't enough:
- Give me your stuff
- Insert toon into Biomass queue over Arrow

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Maximilian Jenious
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-05-03 18:00:13 UTC
hi,

I don't understand how outlaw can go trought gate without probleme. With drugs and other illegal stuff you have problem and not as an outlaw?

High sec must be inaccessible for one personne who shoot an another in high sec.

Low / null sec would be his sentense, so that he can kill (and be killed that's the point) who he want.

++
Velicitia
XS Tech
#35 - 2012-05-03 18:26:17 UTC
Maximilian Jenious wrote:

High sec must be inaccessible for one personne who shoot an another in high sec.


Absolutely not.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-05-03 20:43:54 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
You're not getting answers as people simply don't see it that way, the active people that is.

A hulk is a mining ship, it CAN tank 0.0 belts if fitted for it, it can reach 25k EHP just fine on its own while still having one MLU (close to 29K EHP when using an orca with mining mindlink). It's sturdy enough to do mining but it's ofcourse not sturdy enough to survive a full-on attack but then, if a solo industrial ships gets attacked it SHOULD be in trouble.

Just like WCS is a last resort kind of thing when you get pointed (avoiding being pointed is your best defense) a Hulk's EHP is the same thing; a last resort for when everything else didn't work out. In many cases WCS doesn't work and that's as it should be; why would a single mod or stat make up for a chain of events that all went wrong? In case of being pointed you can use scouts, being aligned, MWD/cloak, you can have the firepower from friendlies to take care of the attacker or you can have so much firepower on the field they won't even DARE to attack. That is all effort but it's the EFFORT that ensures the safety, just as in 0.0 the effort of policing your space and defending your borders ensures a form of safety.

Now we come to hulks, lets be honest; what do most miners do? They don't do ****! They're clueless on the game, never bothered to learn a tiny bit on game mechanics, they don't talk, they don't pay attention, they don't check their Dscanner, they don't bring some military force to secure their assets and above else, they refuse to refit their hulk away from max mining efficiency. Effectively they're like an autistic kid that can only do one thing and fully focus on it completely forgetting everything around him. There's so many things miners can do to protect themselves it's silly but it all takes effort and then they'll have to learn stuff and perhaps (gasp) have to pay attention)!

So no, many of us don't agree with you because all you need is already in the game, it's just that the vast majority of Hulk pilots can't be bothered to make that happen.


amen
Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc
#37 - 2012-05-03 21:21:04 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Ahh, this ****thread again.

No, you will not get a better tank for Industrial ships. Why? Because they are INDUSTRIAL ships. They are designed to have enough tank to fend of belt rats, not fend off ships designed for combat operations.

So you saying a destroyer-class hull, or a battlecruiser-class hull shouldn't be able to gank your Hulk is downright absurd.

If you don't want to be ganked while mining, I have a solution for you. Stop mining.

If that isn't enough:
- Give me your stuff
- Insert toon into Biomass queue over Arrow


Ahh, this ****kind of response again. No....it's not absurd to ask that your job as a ganker be made more difficult. You've been given everything you need to tell other people how to play a game that shouldn't bother you in the least. And yet you get upset when people make a reasonable suggestion about balance.

Hardly any people in this thread has advocated "UNGANKABLE" ships, so pay attention boy. Pony up 100mil ISK again to be able to gank a 200mil ISK ship. Those odds aren't good enough for you? If you have not played both sides then Quitcher bitchin and don't waste your time or ours by replying to these threads. If you have played both sides and still advocate quitting mining then you have rolled over and given the douchebags what they wanted. That kind of play is narrow minded and will cause the stagnation of the player base in this game.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-05-03 21:37:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
^ It already IS difficult unless your target is RE-TARDED.

Thankfully, a lot of EVE players (and the majority of highsec players) are just that.

Take this from someone who HAS PLAYED BOTH SIDES AHHHHHH!
Maximilian Jenious
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-05-03 21:42:34 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Maximilian Jenious wrote:

High sec must be inaccessible for one personne who shoot an another in high sec.


Absolutely not.


I love you argument ah ah, absolutely inutile answer
Im Super Gay
Investtan Inc.
The Republic.
#40 - 2012-05-03 22:37:28 UTC
Maximilian Jenious wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Maximilian Jenious wrote:

High sec must be inaccessible for one personne who shoot an another in high sec.


Absolutely not.


I love you argument ah ah, absolutely inutile answer

Go back to wow. In eve, you are never supposed to be 100% safe anywhere undocked.
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